Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Speaker 2: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside

Marketing with Market Surge.

Today we're cutting through the marketing
BS with someone who actually knows how to

drive pipeline and not just talk about it.

Meet Nisha Jones, fractional
CMO, founder of Strati eight.

Actually, I should have checked with you.

Is that the correct pronunciation?

Great and the no fluff operator behind
multiple marketing transformations across

packaging, tech and service industries.

Nisha isn't about vanity metrics
or fluff, she's about results.

We're talking demand gen systems
that cut customer acquisition

costs in half, brand messaging
that closes PE deals and lessons.

She learned the hard way, like
blowing budget on automation

before nailing messaging.

That's something that we're familiar with.

In this episode, we get into why strategy
has become a marketing cop out, why most

brands produce, uh, content, uh, to access
and underperform on conversions, and how

to build pipeline first marketing engines
without getting lost in shiny tech.

If you want straight talk, smart
insights and a few laughs about what

actually works in modern marketing.

This is the episode
you've been waiting for.

Welcome, Nisha.

Nishat Jones: Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be here.

I appreciate you, reaching out
to me and to be on your podcast.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Absolutely.

Well, it's always nice to talk
to somebody that has some real.

Uh, you know, strategy chops and,
uh, you know, some experience

with high level marketing.

Now you've led some serious turnarounds.

Now what's the first thing you look at
when you start work with a new client,

uh, you know, from your position as
fractional CMO or marketing Advisor.

Nishat Jones: The, very first
thing is your overall strategy

and goals for your organization?

So then I can ensure that the
marketing goal is aligned with those.

Because all too often you find that
marketing is working in a silo.

They're churning, they're just doing
their brand, their messaging, and

there's a complete disconnect from the
rest of the organization, sometimes

much less from the executive, goals.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So,
you know, I think that's helpful.

and I saw, you know, as I was
reading through your content,

I like the term you used that a
lot of CMOs hide behind strategy.

And so what do you mean by that?

Nishat Jones: So they, say
they're being strategic, but

there's a lot of vanity metrics.

There's a lot of decks, there's
a lot of playbooks, and.

Playbooks are only as good as
paper they're printed on right.

Until you can execute on them.

So,

while I believe AI and automation
aren't like these silver bullets and

these, you know, that they are part
of the ammunition for us, but you

really have to know the fundamentals.

Who were your ICPs?

Have you built out your buyer personas?

Do you know what your, potential customer,
your prospects, what are their challenges?

What are their pain points?

So building out the very basic
frameworks, I find that a lot of

organizations don't even have those.

So to then start working on messaging and
content creation, there's a complete miss.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

So, you know, I think a lot of, uh,
marketers, they default to, uh, maybe

spending their way out of problems
or, or, you know, pipeline shortages

in terms of just running more ads.

So, what do you think is a more
sustainable approach than that?

Nishat Jones: I really think you have
to break down and do some segmentation.

look at where you are getting
your leads from today.

paid ads is an area of opportunity
for sure, but it's also one

of the largest areas of spend.

you really have to be careful that if
you are doing any sort of paid ads,

you're looking at the conversions,
the cost per conversion, you know

what it is for your industry, and
you see where you sit in there.

I prefer to be able to look at
where our leads come from that

are closing, that are converting.

utilizing a CRM and making sure
that everything is in there.

that should be a natural, alignment where
marketing and sales work hand in hand.

if you've got a CRM, at least a
basic format, you can see what is the

buyer's journey, where are some of
the areas we're getting stuck, but

more importantly, where are we closing
those deals and those opportunities?

then backtracking from there to look at,
the lead source was a website or wherever

the lead source came from, we can double
down in those areas and assure ourselves

that that will drive more quality leads.

It's not about quantity,
it's always about quality.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Absolutely.

And you know, and I, I guess my
experience, just to back that up,

is typically when you raise spend,
um, you know, as a solution, your,

your cost per acquisition goes up.

Uh, and so it, it actually reduces
your effectiveness and, and.

In, in that sense now.

Um, so let's talk about like in
the, in some real experiences you've

had, what, what are some of the more
successful campaigns or, uh, marketing

strategies you've implemented that
really helped, uh, impact a business?

Nishat Jones: Um, one of the earlier ones
when I, became head of marketing or, you

know, CMO, if you wanna call it that,
when I worked in corporate America was to

implement, a CRM system where we created
an alignment between sales and marketing.

I was actually the first, marketing
resource they had had, and they were a.

million dollar organization.

so it was fantastic to be able to
come in and kind of lay out that

baseline and work through sales.

we built that bridge between sales
and marketing, outlined the brand.

but we're able to look at, okay, so
what's working, what's not working?

And then immediately start,
generating 20% revenue attribution

directly tied to marketing efforts.

So it was fantastic to be able
to see those results early on.

Just by having that alignment
and also having the visibility

into all the data on, where the
clients were actually coming from.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Interesting.

Well, um, you know, so conversely,
are there, uh, situations you've

come into where they were using
marketing strategies or tactics

that were completely ineffective?

Um, you know, anything memorable that,
that stuck out, uh, on that, on that term?

Nishat Jones: I've been in multiple
organizations where I like to call it the

old school marketing, where we literally
throw a net and we see what we catch.

Um, there's no strategy, there's no
insight or thought about it, but it

was just like, Let's try this, let's
try that, um, and see what we catch.

And so I found that.

You know, over the years you've
heard a lot about account based

marketing, account based experience.

So being more targeted, being more
judicious about who you're gonna

go after has worked much better.

So I've had my fair share of coming
into organizations that just don't have

a strategy and they just try and, and
hope and, uh, hope is not strategy for

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
It's not a strategy.

That's well said.

Um, well, let's talk a
little bit about content.

Um, where do you see.

organizations really thriving in terms
of, the balance of, volume versus

quality or volume versus authenticity.

you know, where should an organization
really try to target their efforts?

Nishat Jones: So content is key.

I mean, without content, I don't
think marketing would exist, honestly.

So I am a huge proponent for content.

being said, you don't have to
reinvent the wheel all the time.

Um, repurposing content is probably
the best thing that a lot of

marketers don't do, unfortunately.

Um, one thing I should probably
mention that may or may not come

up in this conversation is ai.

So can AI generate my content?

Absolutely it can.

Do you think it's gonna work very well?

not.

So, the utilization of AI is great for a
lot of research and for a lot of baseline,

but you've gotta have that human touch.

You have to personalize that content.

I mean, when you look at websites today,
the ones That are working the best,

and drawing leads are the ones that
have actually adapted their content to

be more picked up by these LLMs, the
large language models, the AI tools.

So when you're creating content, make
sure it's in the frame of reference that

you and I would use to generate those
prompts or questions that we are for ai.

Make sure that your content is
very human appealing and it's not.

We have high quality, we deliver on time.

all those catch phrases that
a lot of organizations use.

differentiate yourself from there and
make sure their content really resonates.

address the challenges and the pain
points that your prospects are having

and that will be a sure win for you.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So do you, would
you say that most businesses are able to

do the majority of their content in-house?

Or is that, um, you know, or do you
think that that is something that

maybe should be contracted out?

I don't know if you have a,
a broad opinion on that, but.

Nishat Jones: I see a huge mix.

I'm hearing a lot about content
writers being laid off just because

of ai because a lot of executives
feel like AI can do it for you.

and back to my original point, yeah, it
can, but it's not gonna be very good.

I find that the organizations
that are successful at least have.

The majority of the content being done
in house because you are working with

operations, you're working with sales, so
you understand what's happening and you

can really tailor your content better.

Some of it can be done through contract
basis, but I would recommend that

70% of your content be done in house

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Now, you know, and I've also
seen that you, you aren't

anti automation by any means.

And, one of the key.

channels that a marketing, group can do
is, nurture either dormant, former leads

or, leads that didn't close right away.

what would you say is, considering
the conditions of today, what

does an effect lead, nurture
system look like in the present?

Nishat Jones: So today it's, you know,
there's a lot of workflows, there's a

lot of automation for sure, and there's,
there's nothing wrong with those.

Um, just don't overwhelm your audience.

Don't, don't email.

Um, especially in B2B.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

Nishat Jones: right B2C, that's a
different, it's a different game.

Um, but making sure that that content
is very tailored to your audience.

So.

Create lists, segment them out.

If you're focused on six
different industries, that content

should be around each of their
industries, not generic content.

So as much as you can
customize, the better you'll do.

Um.

That's just because it's much
more appealing to that audience.

one other point I wanted to make, Reid,
that you had mentioned earlier was about,

you know, lost leads or opportunities.

Um, that's a huge miss and I find a
lot of organizations don't focus on.

It's that closed, lost, and
it's, oh, we lost it so.

I, um, I actually in every CRM
system that I implement, I'm

actually a HubSpot partner.

I've worked in HubSpot for about 12 years.

Implemented it at eight
different organizations.

So, um, it is my CRM of choice and, um,
but I've worked in many other platforms.

I always like to run closed
loss campaigns, so I will always

have a closed lost reason.

So when sales is closing it out,
was it price, was it timing?

Was it contract?

You know what, what is the reason?

And then to go back and ur those
when you have that product available

or when your lead times are better
or your pricing changes, because

those are huge opportunities.

You already engaged with them.

You already know what their story was.

So, um, you know, it's.

five times as much to generate a
new lead than it does to retain one.

So just imagine if you've already
been through that process once with a

closed, lost, you know, that's, that's
actually low hanging fruit in my opinion.

for companies, I always recommend go
through a closed lost activation program.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah,
that's a, that's a great point.

I've, um, I've seen some success
with that as well, and often

it's just minimal effort.

It's like, sometimes it's even just
a single additional touch point where

they're like, oh, you know, I just
didn't get around to it or that.

Now I had a bad day and I was
totally distracted, you know?

And so it's, um, yeah, I think
that's for a lot of businesses,

uh, keeping good records around
those is, uh, really impactful.

Um, now segmentation obviously
is very important and, um.

Uh, do you have a rule of thumb
where there are too, either too

many personas or ICPs, uh, that
a, a business could go after?

Is, are there never too
many or I, I don't know.

How do you, uh, do, do you,
uh, offer guidance on that?

Nishat Jones: I had like to
say, there's never too many.

Um, but when you go through your
segmentation, that really should

determine, so when you're looking
at it by product or by business,

business unit or whatever it may
be, um, normally I find that you

don't have more than three to five.

But there are organizations
where they'll have a dozen.

So it really, once you've looked at
your data, let your data lead those

decisions, and then you've gone
through your segmentation exercise.

It really will dictate
many you should have.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

But maybe not thousands.

Nishat Jones: definitely not.

Let's not get too green Miller.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah,
because there's always somebody

that's gonna try to push, push that,
you know, just because they can.

But, um, so, you know, you're
deep into the CRM space.

You're a c you know, uh,
the HubSpot expert now.

When you're building a funnel,
so the concept of the funnel

sometimes is new to some businesses.

Um, what are the, the critical
factors that should be a part of

a sales or a marketing funnel?

Nishat Jones: So you've gotta
map out the buyer's journey.

what is the process that the
buyer goes through and what are

our targets and our stage gates?

And make sure that both
of those are aligned.

I mean, that's key.

If you can't do that, then you're
gonna have a complete miss.

and then once you've laid that
out, make sure you're monitoring

each of those, because utilizing
content to drive the next stage, the

next process is another key there.

So, you know, if they're stuck At the
stage where you have done a proposal

or you've had, the discussions about
pricing, perfect time to send a case

study to show them that we've done this.

This has proven this works.

Um, so there are times where you can
actually use content to help them.

Feel more comfortable about the
decision that they're about to make

because they're switching vendors.

They're making a huge change
in their organization at times.

Sometimes you're not the first,
you may be a replacement,

so they need some assurance.

Um, I a huge proponent for case studies,
but, mapping out your content with your

buyer's journey across your pipeline
and your stages is very critical.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: okay.

That's, and I, I'd like this theme
of really understanding the client.

I think you have some real consistency
in this messaging You know, I have worked

with many businesses that they like
doing what they're doing or they like,

certain aspects of their business and
maybe don't care enough about what their

customers like, or don't really understand
why certain customers hire them.

And, so it, that can't be.

Overemphasized.

so now I want to talk about the
alignment between marketing and sales.

Now a c m's, a great platform for that.

but where are the key points
where marketing and sales really

need to be sharing information
or collaborating on key steps?

Nishat Jones: That's a great question.

I think they should
really have shared goals.

So what are the KPIs, the key performance
indicators that we need to achieve?

It's not you and I, it's
never that conversation.

It should always be.

We, um, so first line those
out and look at, you know.

Where are we generating leads from?

What are our sources?

Um, you know, what's realistic?

Is it really realistic that if
you're generating 200 m qls marketing

qualified leads today, that you
expect within three months for

marketing to be able to quadruple
that or, you know, make it a thousand?

Um.

That's an unrealistic expectation.

Be the same.

To do that to sales, to say that, you
know, this money convert, this is so,

make sure you're aligned on your goals and
that you set those metrics to begin with.

Have three, no more than five.

Like, we're not looking to get crazy here.

So of all, you know, get
those lined out and then.

Ensure that that communication
is consistently happening.

So everybody's using the crm.

Everyone has visibility.

There's transparency, so you can see
what's working, what's not working.

There are times where
marketing will try new things.

We may try, you know, some
different types of events.

We may try, um, a different type of ad.

So things are ebb and flow, and just
have that flexibility where there's.

The visibility for everyone to be able to
give input on it, um, and then to continue

reiterating the process, um, as needed.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So if somebody
is listening, just, as a general

statement, they feel like their marketing
is stuck, that, they're trying really

hard, but they're not getting results.

Is there like a single shift or a
single area of their marketing that

you'd emphasize that they should start
on, to start making a difference?

Nishat Jones: Definitely ask them
to look at what they're doing.

I mean, literally at the granular
level, what isn't working?

When you say it's not working, you would
have to break down what that means.

Is it that you're not generating
the qualified leads you need?

Is it not the right type of leads?

are you not in the right place?

do you have data?

Because that data is
really gonna help you.

So if you're not gathering
that data, that's a huge miss.

So it might be just, let's look
at your pipeline, let's look

at your website statistics.

Start with the very basic, and then can
we implement something cost effective

potentially, if you're not looking at
your data and looking at your conversions.

because where your leads come from
today that have closed, and those

are customers, that's really what
you should be doubling down on.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Okay, well that's fantastic.

Now, if somebody would be
interested in working with you.

Hiring you or just consulting with you.

Where are the best places to find you?

Nishat Jones: Uh, probably one of
two places you can go on LinkedIn.

There's only one niche
shot Jones on there.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh.

Nishat Jones: my name in,
you should see me pop up.

And then, uh, also my website.

It's uh, strati eight.com,

so S-T-R-A-T-E, the number eight.com.

And you can connect
with me directly there.

So would love to work with you or
even just have a conversation and

talk to you about what you're doing.

Um, I'd love to offer you just a,
A complimentary session to talk

about maybe some of the challenges
you're having and see if we can,

uh, dive a little deeper on that.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
That's fantastic.

Well, thank you so much for joining
us and uh, I would recommend reaching

out to Nisha if you have any needs
around getting your marketing

act together or, uh, you know.

Defining sales and marketing processes.

I think Nisha has a wealth of
expertise that you could really

benefit from, so thank you.

Nishat Jones: Thank you.

Speaker: Want to stay ahead of what's
actually working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
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That's market surge.io

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