Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Hello and welcome back.

Today on Inside Marketing with
Market Surge, we're diving into one

of the most misunderstood and most
powerful areas of digital marketing.

That's organic PR and link building.

Our guest, Darcy UD More is a journalism
graduate who has spent nearly a decade

working in PR and link building.

In 2024, he founded Repu Links, a company
focused on helping businesses build trust

and credibility in the digital world.

is passionate about organic methods
because while many people claim organic

backlinks and real PR coverage are
dead, he's out there proving every

day that they're very much alive.

Today we'll be talking about why organic
Link still matters, how businesses

can earn coverage without gimmicks,
and what it really takes to stand

out in a crowded digital landscape.

Darcy, welcome to the show.

Darcy from RepuLinks: Intro Reed
appreciate you having me looking

forward to chatting about this

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So you started
in journalism and then you've moved

in PR and SEO and now link building.

How did that transition happen
and what drew you to where you

are today to start your own firm?

Darcy from RepuLinks: yeah.

Ah, yeah graduated journalism thought
I'd be working on that side of the wall

but literally had to take a job just to
get experience and that was with the pr

agency started at the very bottom of an
agency doing literally the most mini task

you can think of and then began working
my way up and saw how the journalism.

Experience helps en pr the side of the
fence you're kind of interacting with

journalists and stuff and it kind of built
from there started getting some really

good coverage really good reactions to
some of the campaigns i was running and

then as pr evolved it constantly changing
Organic pr Organic link building a lot of

people are coming to me campaigns with the
so Purpose of links so then that got me

thinking like what can we do specifically.

Back me on the to en link building
space we still do a lot of traditional

pr stuff getting more into it every day
as Organic link building service yeah

a little bit of stands got into this pr
its pretty interesting over the last you

know almost ten years or whatever it es.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's awesome.

Well, we'll get into some of the, um,
harder content in just a second, but

I noted that you've worked with, um,
NHL teams, uh, in particular, and,

you know, what was your day-to-day
like, you know, what were the kinds

of tasks you were handling for them?

Uh, you know, and did any of that
help you in your current endeavor?

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah that
was a really cool experience.

Ah, i worked mostly with the owa senators
when i was working en Ottawa it was a

communications role mostly on social
media honestly it was in promotion

with a huge sponsor there and the team
mostly just promoting the team ah, i

would say you know writing in general
like through journalism has helped like

with every aspect of running my business
like you know i talk with people.

Journalism and they they mention is
journalism dead is it going and even if it

is dead i don't think it is by the way but
even if it is dead en you are working in

journalism the skills you like so crucial
so on social media with the senators.

Obviously the writing i was also on
camera quite a bit doing some promotions

so a little bit of that help but ah,
really really fun experiences I'm a

huge senator fan i then was able to
work a bit with the Toronto ma believes

on a similar campaign it was tough
for me to do that as a senses fan.

Ah, but was a really cool experience.

Short after i

that campaign and kind of changed
that for good being in the work i

do i had to pick a side i either
do what I'm doing now maybe stay in

that lane and kind of chose this lane
because it was more like parttime

kind of passion work for me super fun.

Ah, a huge hockey fan so getting a
chance de do that es always a a highlight

of my professional life for sure.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That,
that's really interesting.

And I, um, that sounds like a lot of fun.

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
so maybe as we get into.

Like I said, nuts and bolts.

Um, let's talk a little bit about,
you know, what are organic backlinks?

And then some people say that they have,
uh, been reduced in, in importance.

Uh, you know, with, with the advent of AI
and the changing in, in, uh, Google search

algorithms, um, you know, tell us what
they are, why they're, why they mattered,

and what do you think is their relevance
in, in, uh, today's uh, environment.

Darcy from RepuLinks: Sure.

Yeah i mean i guess an Organic
back link would be anything

earned anything that you've done.

Without

what we do.

There monitor and we
find opportunities for

real insight content dos opportunities and
our hope is that we get published and it

includes coverage way but there are many
other ways to get Organic backing journal

whatever it might be i mean
personally these links.

Price

media coverage es pretty high
price crazy i truly believe that

agency to do Organic link building

real la les

and the quality be and that that's.

Coming from experience

i fui

purchase the link we'd it would be
more than what they to monitor these

channels and that's just a reality
have fax to back up so obviously the

cost is a big thing i also think Google
and ai is getting very smart to ah.

Spa fake and i think if you can land
Organic coverage in author Article es

what we do that the coverage you get
es more than just a link like we've had

clients who that key actual traffic and.

And

not long ago we had a.

And that you know

the so i mean its de.

There's different sides to the story
when it comes to SEO in general not even

just links but i think earning links and
earning coverage es the best way to get

these links and I'll stand by that as
long as I'm doing it and yeah i mean yeah

hopefully that answer your question but
i just think the quality of the price

no.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Well, and I agree with you.

Um, and you mentioned something
about, you know, a back in.

Sales, you know, and that's the dream, you
know, what are some of the measurements

that you use with your clients to
help them, understand the return

they can get on this kind of effort?

Um, you know, like sales are
great, but it's not always easy to

Darcy from RepuLinks: Right.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: what
do you recommend from a measuring

and analytics standpoint?

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah great point
obviously you can nail it down strictly

to you know if you really believe in
back links and getting out there how

many pieces you can get published and
that's something we obviously track like

at the end of the month saying we've had
this many articles published and that's

all great obviously you can dig in a lot
deeper but that's a great place to start

like are you getting published pretty
easy way to look at it i think for a new

site somebody new SEO you can nail it
down as simple as that and from there

the other things are the Metrics that
are affiliated with se the domain rating

general traffic you know these different.

Things that people monitor we definitely
track that regularly sending client of

their page just to say you know this is
what it looks like compar to a month ago

and you're seeing little different things
like key words domain rating number back

different like that generally i just
believe that consistent back links from

healthy websites are gonna do good things
for you i think SEO is a proven channel

for success i believe that most of the
clients i work with believe that SEO is

a proven channel so just consistently
getting good back links and seeing

Growth on those Metrics that matter

You know and you know every six
months whatever doing a deep dive

into have we Growth are we more
traffic we key is dos types of

things general track at times but.

Yeah.

Ah, it is tough to to really understand
especially for new sites we do work

with a lot of new sites who just launch
which is really exciting because i

think you can see bigger reactions to
the links we get and stuff like that

but at the same time it's like yes
you're getting more back links you know

you're youre getting like what is that.

Relate to directly and those are things
we really enjoy speaking with the client

too especially when we've done it for
six months and and we look back and

say where are we now compared to then.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah, that.

No, that makes a lot of sense.

um.

You know, the elephant in the room
when we're talking about technology

marketing, technology content is, uh, ai.

And, um, where do you, you know, I
think AI has really increased the

amount of content that we're either
receiving in our email inboxes.

Um, you know, it affects, uh,
what we see in Google search.

It, um, you know, it affects
the way we search ourselves.

Um.

but it also, I, I think it's
also, there's a lot of content

out there that is AI generated.

Um, what are your thoughts on, you
know, how a business should leverage,

you know, like a journalist, you
know, that can write great content or,

um, introduce a lot of AI generated
content in their, in their feeds.

how do you think through that?

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah yeah it's
a great question i think ai definitely

has a space I'm not like the thing that
would keep me from using ai in the work

we do is knowing that journalists value.

Non ai written content so if we have
a leg up if we're submitting a pitch

to a request and you know two hundred
other people are and we can stand

out by not using ai content then
that's just a leg up for us based on

what the journalist is looking for

Boils down es easi for us like the journal
insight real that and that kind leads our

approach to writing pitches As far as you
know ai can be used for finding contact

ideating like to come up with a strategy
no question you should be using it because

it is just another tool in your tool that
you can use to help with the process like

if you need help with writing a pitch
as long as you're being ethical and this

is giving you ideas for sure use it.

But you know at the end of the day
like i was just talking about with

the results it there was the ROI
the actual Growth is what speaks so.

If you are writing pitches with ai
and you're submitting a hundred and

getting a small percentage of them.

Ah, publish i don't care how quick ai
es you're not reaching that goal of

getting back links and getting noticed
by the press so a no brainer for me

to also write pitches with a human
element but also have it there and be

available to me if i can use it at all.

Ah.

Which es súper interesting.

Es far si.

Two sides.

The Google search and appearing ai search
and appearing in ai tools is something

now on AFT you go in you can see if
you've if you're appearing in certain

searches on chat PT or whatever that's
really cool and something you gotta

monitor at the other side how is Google
search react to ai content are they.

Frowning upon it or they you know is
it the same as human written content

there's kind of multiple sides right now
probably too early to come with up with

a definitive answer but i think it's
a tool to be used at the right time.

Ah, when you use it and how you use
it that's probably gonna differentiate

these different companies and different
professionals doing stuff especially

when it comes to like Organic back
links where i really believe a

human element is require to get the
results that really move the Needle.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

No, that, that's really helpful.

Well, so part of what you're
describing sounds like.

You know, to get these quality
links is to tell a quality story

or, or, you know, have a great
narrative around your business.

Um, how frequently are businesses coming
to you with these great stories or, um,

you know, how often is it something that
you have to kind of pull out of them or

have to, uh, guide them to, you know,
um, I think about businesses that might

be doing something that is, they feel
like isn't super differentiated, but

you know, how, how do you guide them?

Through making a, making a great story.

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah great question
so you know honestly i kind of stepped

away from the traditional pr world for
a while as we build the reping service

which is pitching a hero in these other
platforms but in the last six months I've

kind of dive back in mostly because people
are coming to me looking for a digital

pr service and i really love the world
of it has grown it's still that same.

getting publish and you know a.

Ah, so a ya theres two
sides come to me they have.

Basically no story to tell that's gonna be
of interest these days like its super hard

and they think they have a story maybe
they say you know i launch my business

and this is and and it's tough to tell
them like it's probably not gonna get the

type of pr traction you're looking for ah,
but at the same time there's other ways.

To get coverage you know right I'm i
don't have a great story than the work

i do speaking with you on this podcast
so everyone can can get out story d.

Podcast d platforms like that do
they have a story to appear on

the page of the new York times.

Ah, maybe not you have to kind of readjust
that expectation they have the other

thing is you have clients come to you and.

Maybe they have a story that they don
realize and a lot of times that is like

data analytics and industry expertise that
isn't known by everyone like if you run

a platform you have this many customers
and you're taking their their information

like you can quickly put that into a
data set that could be of interest to a

journalist a journalist especially today.

You know multiple stories a week they
don't have the time to go out and

Collect data on their own and if you
can provide them with data some sort

of survey some sort of client report
whatever it might be and make it easy

then you might have something there.

And sometimes pulling that story from
the client is tough they just don't

see it and i say you know what you
work with these clients all the time

you have this data that shows the work
you're doing and the industry you're

in and let's package that up and sell
it to a journalist and see what happens

To somebody else because they work
with it every day it might be like at

this point you pull it out you put it
in a nice presentation and you send it

to journalist you just never know and
sometimes that happens with journalists

as well so yeah there's two sides coin
they think they have a great story and

i have to tell them no it might not be
as interesting as you think or they're

sitting on a gold mine of information
that you have to pull and then.

Present to a journalist and i think
in pr it's creativity and just kind

of thinking outside the box that
sometimes is the most challenging

it does take time it takes effort.

but the goal is that in the
end all of that is worth it

whenever you see yourself print

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.

you, um, talk a little bit about, you
know, the entrepreneurial side of this.

Um, you know, you're building
a business, uh, PU links.

What are some of the challenges
you faced And maybe even comment

on what are the PR efforts you're
doing for your own business?

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah a few podcasts
this is my third talking with you and I'm

pretty excited about that something new
to me to get out there and speak about

it but you probably can tell I'm pretty
passion about Organic coverage and the

work i do so i love talking about that

On linkedin being very active promoting
Organic coverage and I'm not doing that

to necessarily sell my services all the
time i just feel like there's such a.

I think you opened with it where you said
it's one of maybe the most understood

Worlds of marketing is Organic coverage
and Organic link building especially

in Twenty Twenty five and moving
forward so really passionate about

just talking about Organic coverage
letting people know that it is available

to them if they put the effort in

But sometimes that's definitely a
challenge you talk about entrepreneurial

challenges some people maybe don't
see that those Organic opportunities

are out there and showing them
that it is and convincing them that

it's not all garbage can be tough.

But that's something I'm passionate about
doing and consistently getting out there

so focused on that for me in rep lx I'm
a pretty new business owner especially

with team members so learning how to
train and manage people has been a lesson

that I'm still going through every day.

and i felt that you know being candid.

A few consultants that have become a
huge part of my professional life and

the Growth of reply so yeah i mean it's
been a Journey it's all the challenge and

I'm always looking to learn and improve
but pretty fun to be able to spend my

time every day doing this type of things.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Darcy from RepuLinks:
Um, that's for sure yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: awesome.

You know, I, um, I've been doing
this podcast for a few months and

I've found it a great, uh, outlet.

It's like, you know, it's a
combination of networking and,

having these conversations and.

Refining my message and getting better
at talking about my own business and,

hearing people, you know, what lights up
their face or gets follow up questions.

You know, it's, probably a lot like this
process of being a standup comedian.

You know, you gotta bomb a few
times before you find your voice.

But, um.

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah.

Probably something you never perfect
either i mean, a lot of these things

that we do business and stuff but like
a podcast host you're probably not gonna

feel like you perfect it but it'll be fun
to look back and you know the good thing

of a podcast you can literally look back
a year ago and be like wow I've improved

a large amount which would be pretty cool

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: absolutely.

If I ever get the stomach up to
listen to my early podcasts, I might

have that feeling, but, um, well,

Darcy from RepuLinks: por.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Darcy,
you've got a lot of knowledge in

this area and thank you for helping
educate us on organic links and, pr.

people would like to work with you, where
is the best place for them to contact you?

Darcy from RepuLinks: Ah ya obviously
rep link dot com our website always

happy to chat but i i would say linkedin
Darcy cut more I'm very active on

linkedin and not just promoting myself
or my business just in general sharing

stuff about the Organic link building
pr world I'm happy to offer one on one

no obligation calls with people where i
basically take them through what we do.

Ah i know one person who has taken the
lesson i show him built him self as his

business and has completely changed his.

World by himself he he had a low budget.

He was unable to hire someone so he
basically said I'm gonna start building

some high quality links on my own
and he's done it and it's been a huge

Growth for him i never earned anything
off that that's that was just a a

really cool project that i was able
to do thirty minutes of my time so I'm

happy to calls with people i say just
get in touch on linkedin we love to

chat Organic link building you where.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Well, thanks so much.

I'm so glad you joined us.

Darcy from RepuLinks: Yeah thank you Reid
really appreciate uh, connecting with you.

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