Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Welcome to Inside Marketing
With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed: Hello, today on Inside
Marketing with Market Surge.

We're diving into the world of
advertising and what it means to

buy attention in the digital and the
old school way, and how those old

school lessons still matter today.

Our guest is Matt Hansen, a seasoned
media strategist with a career spanning

traditional broadcast, outdoor print,
and promotional advertising from

running high impact local campaigns to
navigating the shift towards digital.

Matt brings a rare blend of old school
wisdom and modern marketing savvy.

If you've ever wondered how media
buying really works behind the scenes

or how to translate those classic
principles into today's fragmented ad

landscape, this is the episode for you.

Welcome, Matt.

Matt Hanson: thanks for having me.

I appreciate it.

Reed: Yeah, my pleasure.

it's really nice to have somebody
with some real chops in this field.

Um, you know, advertising is something
that most businesses, uh, engage in.

Uh, although most of the people I work
with primarily do digital advertising, uh,

on the social media platforms and search,
I'd love to hear, you know, we'll dive

into all those things, but could we start
with, could you tell us, you've had a

deep experience in the advertising space.

how did you first get into
the advertising world?

Matt Hanson: Well, it's funny, um, coming
outta school, I, come full circle and

my very first job coming out of school,
I went to work for Futures Magazine

and I remember walking in on day one.

Me in front of a Mac asking
me if I've ever used one.

And of course I hadn't at that point,
and that's stating myself obviously.

they asked me to do an 850,000
piece direct mail, and I

had no industry knowledge.

I had no idea on how to do it.

And we've gone from there
to today where I'm using.

Obviously traditional channels, but
also using digital and the ability

to track and even go back in time
and find people where they were.

So, um, you know, marketing has evolved
drastically over those 25 years.

But, uh, for your listeners, we,
we figured out the 850,000 piece

mailer and, uh, I was off and going.

Reed: Well, that's fantastic.

And, you know, true entrepreneurial,
effort, as you described.

So tell us about what that
world was like in the print.

times where you're, doing a lot of
mail deliveries and other channels

for, distributing physical media.

what were the challenges that people
were dealing with, at that time

and how does that contrast with
what we face with the digital ads?

Matt Hanson: Back then, it was lots
of costs, obviously in printing

paper and uh, those types of things.

so there's lots of costs
and there was a lot of.

Lead up to what you're actually gonna do.

today you can pretty much launch
an ad in seconds if you've

got the creative ready to go.

Back then it was a coordinated
effort with a variety of different.

Platforms, different people that aren't
necessarily in your offices, right?

So, um, the idea was you had to
have 2, 3, 4 weeks planning, design,

getting all of that stuff out there.

And it, you know, some of that really
hasn't changed today, but we've done

things faster in a digital world, right?

So we have digital printing, Back
in the day, we would print 850,000

pieces that were all the exact same
today in the traditional sense.

every single piece that we print can be
printed digitally with your name on it.

Uh, you know, the things that
you've purchased in the past,

we can digitally print it.

So the methods are still the same
in the fact that you can do digital.

Mailers.

You can do magazines, you can do any of
these kind of traditional ideas, but the

digital component and the data component
allowed us to do things that are a little

bit more personalized where we are today.

So if you're getting a direct mail piece,
we can personalize it to your preferences.

Even in magazines, which, uh, you know,
magazines have kind of shifted to an

old school method, but they're still
used today and they're still relevant.

And we can get into all kinds of
audiences there and options, but you

know, we used to just print send one
ad today if you really wanted to.

You could literally do a digital
print where you're inviting people

by name, subscriber name to.

part of some kind of offer
that you're putting in your ad.

So I think we're still kind of how we
used to be, but the data, the technology

has caught up with us and allows
us to be a much, much more targeted

effort in where we're going and give
that personalization, that piece to

people to say like, we know you buy.

X.

So we're gonna provide you with X
instead of trying to sell you on Y.

And that's, you know, we can call 'em X
and Y or widgets, whatever you wanna call.

You know, business school 1 0 1.

Reed: Uh, now tell me
a little bit about, um.

Okay, so attribution I think was probably
an interesting challenge back then.

Uh, was it only based on sales
growth or, you know, how did you

figure out attribution in that space?

Matt Hanson: so we used

Reed: Mm-hmm.

Matt Hanson: uh, we would put source codes
on pretty much everything that we did.

And, you know, you'd have a little
code at the bottom of the ad and

when somebody would call a phone
number, we'd ask, what is that code?

You see a lot of this on the
traditional TV channels still today.

Um, you know, if you ever watch
daytime tv, you know the linear

TV that's going out there and, and
targeting an older generation, you'll

see that they'll put different.

Codes and they'll ask for
those codes when they call in.

Same thing happened on direct mail.

Same thing happened on print ads.

if we were to do a radio spot, we would
have a certain source code in there.

it was a kind of an archaic way to still
understand where they're coming from.

what we would do is we
would add up all of the.

Information that we gathered from that.

And we knew it was gonna be
somewhat skewed just because

of, the way we were doing it.

But say, all right, well source code A is
producing much better than source code Z.

And as we move forward, we're
gonna utilize A and B instead of Z.

But, That's probably the easiest, most
archaic way that we used to do it.

we didn't have pixels and all
these things that, we've grown

up with over the last 10 years to
track and monitor what's going on.

we used ways that we could, and, even
today, if your audience is doing a

magazine ad or putting something on
the radio or even going in a newspaper,

put a source code on it because, source
code can just be the date that it ran.

And, um.

You know, maybe the, the platform
that you're out there on, right?

So we talk about UTM parameters
in the digital space.

It's kind of like UTM, where you're
saying, okay, NP could be newspaper

Uh, today is May 15th, np May
15th could be your source code.

And then, you know, exactly that
ad ran where in the newspaper

and it ran on that date.

So now we know exactly where it came from.

Reed: Okay.

No, that's, that's really helpful.

And, um, so fast forward to today
where, um, many business owners have

skipped that, uh, channel, but, um,
obviously like there are still, I mean,

these channels are still available.

Um, When you're talking to a business
owner that doesn't have any experience in

the traditional channels, um, how do you
advise them to look at these channels?

Like, is this, um, as effective, is
this a good supplemental to their

digital strategy, or are there certain
kinds of businesses that should

forego digital and go to physical
or other traditional channels?

Matt Hanson: I

Reed: So,

Matt Hanson: that it's a
loaded question, right?

So

Reed: sure.

Yeah.

Matt Hanson: I would say most companies
struggle with awareness, right?

So you're not the major
company that's out there.

And you know, we talk about
Coca-Cola and Apple and all of these

companies, and they really only
have a 92 to 94% awareness factor.

So they're, you know, I always say there's
somebody living in a cave somewhere,

I'm not quite sure where they're at.

But you know, these brands
don't have a hundred percent

awareness out in the market.

So when we sit down and we
start talking to companies.

We really wanna understand
where is your awareness factor.

And many times what we find is local
companies, you know, somebody that's in a

local city that's trying to drive traffic
over to their company, um, they'll only

have roughly around 10 to 30% awareness.

if you're doing that, that's fine.

Um, we have to go out there.

And digital is relatively inexpensive
and it allows us to do a lot

more targeting and I think that's
a valuable asset to have, but.

Think of it in terms of if your
target audience is not on meta, right?

they've given up on meta and they
just don't want to do it anymore.

Or, um, they surf the web, they're
out there looking at different things.

But, maybe they don't
click on display ads.

Uh, maybe they don't
open promotional emails.

Maybe they, their, their
inbox just doesn't.

Uh, you know, maybe it
goes to spam at that point.

They may be seeing some ads here
or there, but you also gotta

realize are other avenues that
people see on a regular basis.

So we are, you know, I, again,
I'm, I'm just south of you.

Right

Reed: Right.

Matt Hanson: in Indiana,
uh, just south of Chicago.

And, you know, we are getting
bombarded right now with a,

I won't name the company, but
their billboards are everywhere.

And it's funny because I started
seeing the digital side of it about,

I would say two to three weeks
ago, and all of a sudden they've

just got this massive impact.

the digital side where I'm seeing
literally four or five billboards in

one location as I'm driving now, that's
an extreme example, what we're saying

is you're trying to generate awareness.

So if they're not just seeing you
on, if they're seeing you, you know,

in the digital space, but they're
also seeing you in real life, the

interactions that you're having, right?

they're driving to work in
the morning and they hear

something about you on the radio.

They see a billboard on the way.

as they're coming in, they get to
work, they log into their email.

There's another email from you.

They go online to break up the day, and
you know, there's a display ad from you.

They're driving home, they
see a couple more billboards.

They maybe hear another commercial.

They get home, they're cooking
dinner, they turn on the tv.

there's a million different ways
that we can generate awareness.

But what I always say to everyone is.

Understand your market and your farm.

Uh, understand your audience, right?

So if we're dealing with an 18-year-old
versus a 65-year-old, those are

completely different audiences and
completely different ways to look at it.

in my own house, my wife
and I are two years apart.

And she watches TV religiously.

I don't ever turn on tv.

I listen to podcasts and streaming
music, she listens to the radio, right?

So there we have to realize that we can't
just look at people from the standpoint

of an age, um, gender, anything like that.

But we have to look for the pockets
of individuals that we're going after.

So really understanding who
it is that you're targeting.

Understand their consumption habits.

And I hear this all the time.

People say, oh, I'm targeting, you
know, 18 to 65 year olds, and I'll

go, well, that's pretty much everyone.

Uh, can we get a little bit more specific?

So really, if you start to understand
those types of things, even from

a, you know, 18 to 24-year-old.

There are differences.

Um, you know, some will be on
TikTok, some will not be on TikTok.

Some will be giving up their cell phones.

They don't want to spend
hours and hours of time on it.

And then there are some that still
spend 10, 12 hours a day on it.

So I think what we're saying is there's.

A digital side that we all kind of play
in and we have to play in because it's

so cheap and it allows us to target the
individuals that we want to go after.

a whole nother world out there.

And it's funny because what is
old is now become new again.

So I live with a 19-year-old
and a 17-year-old, and they

love getting direct mail.

They every, and you know, and don't
wanna get direct mail because I, you

know, I think Bill when I get that.

But I've noticed a change where I would
say probably over the last five to 10

years, you know, you were getting a
ton of direct mail and then it kind of

eased off and now it's starting to come
back and people are getting a little

bit more creative with it, with the
sizes and things that you can do and

the personalization that you can do.

But, um, I got one yesterday and
I thought it was a unique piece.

It stood out.

It was die cut.

Um, you know, it made me notice so.

Again, I think it's the audience.

I think it's just understanding that
you gotta break up the monotony of

just doing another meta ad or another
YouTube ad or whatever that you're doing

out there in the digital space, and
understand where they are in that funnel.

So if it's awareness or are
they, um, do they know about you?

And now we've moved to consideration,
which is a whole nother conversation.

we could have.

Reed: Yeah, well, you, so you raised
some interesting points and, but

first of all, you, you, uh, sparked a.

Memory, um, recent memory.

My, my daughter is a junior in high
school and starting to think about college

and is getting a lot of physical mail
from universities all over the country.

You know, I'm, I'm sure as most that
sign up for a standardized test do,

but, um, she'll get the most random.

University that I've never heard
of, rural Maine or something.

and, you know, and then I'll find
like 24 hours later, she's just

like, listing off all the, the
great things about this university.

And I'm like, you're not gonna go there.

But clearly, like it is, had an
impact on you, like the novelty

of it, you know, for a, for a
17-year-old kid, you know, like that.

Matt Hanson: it,

Reed: it really worked.

Matt Hanson: you have the same thing, but
my daughter, when she gets one, she's 17.

Reed: Uh.

Matt Hanson: to go.

Um, the first thing she
asks is, are there stickers?

I don't know.

The stickers are the thing.

They love the stickers.

Um, but we were talking the
other day about one that came in

and it was a trivia game and it

Reed: Okay.

Matt Hanson: have any
branding on it whatsoever.

And it said, go to this website and
it wasn't a branded website, and you

go to the website and it was kind of
a, a little puzzle that you had to do.

And it was perfect timing
because I brought it in.

You know, I'd gotten home from
work and brought it into her.

She was doing homework in the kitchen
table and I said, oh, this one's unique.

So we literally went on the website
and started looking at it and, you

know, I'm literally looking over
her and I go, okay, I've got it.

And, you know, took her a second
or two longer than did, so I'm

bragging here, but, uh, you
know, but we both figured it out.

And then we clicked it and we
realized it was a, a college that

was kind of promoting, thinking
through things and, you know, using

your brain and all this other stuff.

And I went.

That to me was a win.

I like that.

it took both of us.

It hit at the perfect time.

She was doing schoolwork at home Um,
it got both of us involved in it.

And I'm not, again, I'm not gonna
spread any names of universities, but

Reed: Sure.

Matt Hanson: it was really cool idea.

And so it took, you know, we,
we've got the sticker side of

things, but then you have the,
how creative can we possibly get?

And I loved that part.

I thought that was just a perfect use.

It was a simple postcard, nothing fancy.

Um, just a problem.

And go to the website and
see if you can solve it.

I loved it.

Reed: No, that's a great use case.

You know, it, kinda takes the lead
magnet concept to physical mail,

you know, I think that's great.

Now, um.

You know, so we're talking about some
of these traditional channels and I

think we're familiar with the fact
that if you can sign up for these

digital ad accounts on Meta or Google,
you can do it for, three figures a

month, run a reasonable campaign.

But what are the budget implications
and what should somebody think about

budget wise when they're looking
at some of these other channels?

Like is it quite that accessible or should
they think about more of a investment?

Matt Hanson: Um, it depends really
like what you're looking to do.

Reed: Mm-hmm.

Matt Hanson: you know, let's say
you want to do a billboard, uh,

Reed: Mm-hmm.

Matt Hanson: into billboards
for relatively cheap if

they're digital, right?

So you're sharing the space and
instead of having to pre-print an

entire billboard and put it up.

Um, you know, those, I mean,
you're, you're talking that

three figure realm, uh, and

Reed: Okay.

Matt Hanson: kind of put those
in the areas that you need to be.

So if you're a restaurant or some
kind of local kind of, uh, got that

placement around where you want
it to be, that's perfectly fine.

Radio's still a, a very cheap.

Uh, you can go and record, literally
record your, your commercial online

through websites if you really want to.

And download it.

And submit it.

Many of them have digital platforms.

You can just submit it, put in
there what you want, and off you go.

I would say when it comes to tv,
that's a little bit harder because

we have the whole video concept and,
and trying to put all that together.

It can be.

Pretty pricey, but it
can also be pretty cheap.

So, you know, we talk about
CPMs in this space, and I

don't per thousand impressions.

So every thousand eyeballs that see are
at is what we're talking about there.

You know, what we're typically at,
um, in some of the markets that I've

been in, we're talking Louisville, St.

Louis, uh, even Chicago.

I've been able to get my
CPMs down pretty, pretty low.

when you look at something like meta,
I think the average meta CPM is roughly

around $7 for cost per thousand.

I've actually been able to manipulate
and ask for things and, uh, we can talk

about negotiation here as well, but
I've been able to talk with my vendors

in those markets and get them down
into the eight, nine, $10 CPM range.

them adding additional
things on top, right?

So, um, typically something like a
Louisville is gonna cost you about

a $25 CPM, and that's fine, right?

So you're running on the major networks,
the ABCs, the NBCs, the CBSs, right?

if you start to negotiate and
you start to ask questions about,

Hey, what else can we throw in?

If your budgets are big enough.

they will throw in certain things.

I mean, they may throw in a
sponsorship for, uh, you know, one

of the daily TV shows that are on.

they may do an interview.

They may do kind of like a dedicated
spot for you where it's like a

five minute interview process.

Um, there's all kinds of different things,
or maybe even just simple impressions

on their website or their email list,
but you can kind of talk them down a

little bit and get those CPMs down.

So.

I love to negotiate.

It's just one of the
things that I love to do.

Um, many people don't,
but honestly, you can.

You can have some really good quality
conversations and get those prices

down, from a 25 or even a $50 CPM and
get them down to a $10 CPM overall.

Reed: That, that is really interesting.

And you know, like, again,
I'm, I'm, this is not my world.

And, and so I, I, I find
this really fascinating.

Another thing you mentioned on an
earlier topic, talking about the

customers that a business is going after.

You know, and sometimes businesses
have to make a decision about.

do I address the customers that are,
I'm more successful at getting at?

Or do I go after customers that I
want, that maybe I'm not, accessing

as well, you know, and, and you know,
there's different personas to go after.

How do you help your
clients go after those?

Personas and make a decision, like,
you know, of course everybody wants a

billionaire client that is a big spender
or, you know, but there aren't very

many of those and they're, obviously
bombarded with, all kinds of businesses

wanting their time and eyeballs.

how do you, help counsel your
clients there when they're,

trying to profile a customer?

Matt Hanson: him and I say who you
know, which of your customers would

you hang out with on the weekend?

Reed: Ah,

Matt Hanson: Right.

Reed: okay.

Matt Hanson: you don't want to have a
bunch of problem customers because they're

going to take up tons of time and tons
of effort, and is it really worth it?

From my point of view, I always say
identify the, you know, when we talk about

the Pato principle, the 80 20, 80% of your
business comes from 20% of your customers.

I have measured this
from multiple businesses.

It's always roughly close.

It may be a few points off, but.

That happens over and over and over again.

So what I always say is, let's go dive
deep into your customer base and really

understand where they're coming from.

Who are these ideal customers?

Who's giving you the most
money and the least headache?

And understand where they came from,
and then go, all right, how do we

approach others just like them?

And it could be something as
simple as referrals, right?

That cost you literally nothing.

Um, but it could also be a major
targeted effort in a certain area, right?

So, um, we did a discussion a while
back of how to become a celebrity in

your area, It was talking about digital
and being out at events and, uh, you

know, sponsoring a bunch of things and
using the traditional methods such as

billboard and radio and all these things.

interesting to me many people
will chase a bad customer or chase

a large, you say a billionaire,
uh, that you want as a customer.

Everyone's chasing 'em.

So why don't you just go out there
and find the niche that you're really

good at and find more of them, and
you're gonna be so much more happy

because you're dealing with people
that you really want to deal with.

Instead of people that are, gonna look
at you and say, don't have time for you.

I don't wanna hear from you.

I'll let you know when I'm ready.

find the people that you want to hang
out with and you know, they always

say If you're having fun, you're
never working a day in your life,

that's the same thing with customers.

Find the ones that you absolutely love,
and work with 'em because that's just

gonna make your business successful.

Reed: That's great advice.

Um, you know, we can't talk anything
marketing without talking about, um, ai.

Matt Hanson: Mm-hmm.

Reed: And, you know, AI obviously
has had a huge impact on most

businesses, and a lot on advertising.

has the influence or reach of AI
impacted, traditional channels as well?

Like in the content generation
or the buying of the ads?

have you observed that?

Matt Hanson: Yeah, I think,
there's two ways to look at this.

We can look at it from the creative
point of view, so you know.

Reed: Yeah.

Matt Hanson: You might not
understand how to build the next

32nd commercial that you have to do.

so this morning I had to go do a
voiceover audio commercial, and I went.

You know, very simple.

I started in chat, GBT, I'm
like, okay, gimme some insights.

Where should I go?

Like, we were tweaking some
things, but it was a jumping

off point a creative standpoint.

There's a ton of creative, uh, websites
and, and things that are out there that

you can use to create video and imagery
and all of those types of things.

you know.

I joke that the last time Purdue was
playing in the NCAA tournament, I sat

down at Tipoff and before the end of
the game, I had successfully created

an entire episode of a podcast,
not to mention the cover art and

everything that went along with it
and launched it, and I joked because

somebody had already listened to it.

The next morning after I'd uploaded it.

So there's

Reed: cool.

Matt Hanson: million different things
that we can go out there on the creative

side and do we couldn't do five years ago.

And it's just getting better.

I mean, I've actually got a video on
YouTube that is a hundred percent AI of

me, and you could not tell the difference.

It looks just like you're
looking at me today.

If we look at it from the media
buying perspective, in the future,

and I, you know, even Zuckerberg
has said this, that like.

not gonna have to go into meta to,
to actually do anything anymore.

You're just gonna tell them who
you're going after, how much you wanna

spend, and how many results you want.

It's gonna spit it out on the other side.

Great.

From a marketing agency
or a marketing person.

Great.

That takes one less thing off my
plate or one more thing off my plate

that I don't have to worry about.

But I think that we speed up.

We're using technology to target
people in a much easier way.

In a much, that whole, that old adage
of half of my marketing, I don't

understand if it's working or not.

I just dunno which half is working.

Uh, I think we're getting to a point
now where the technology is catching

up and it's allowing us to kind
of know, okay, for every dollar I

spend, I should be getting a dollar
50 or $5 or whatever in return.

And we're at that point,
and I, I'm excited.

I know everyone always talks about
AI and, oh, it's gonna take jobs.

It is sped up the amount of things
that we do from an agency perspective.

It is sped up the amount of things that
I do from a university perspective.

I mean, everything that I do
in my daily life is sped up.

Is that good or bad?

I don't know.

We'll find out when the
robots take over the world.

But, uh, hopefully I'll
be a friend at that point.

Reed: Hopefully you're one of
those that saying please and

thank you on the chat request.

Matt Hanson: extra dollars
for the please and thank you.

Right.

Reed: that's right.

No, that's, that's fantastic.

Um, so, you know, um, I guess
one final question, maybe

that's a two-sided question.

What is something, um, from
old traditional media that

you would love to see more of?

And what is something that you're looking
forward to in the technology realms?

You know, what, something in the
realm of what we can look forward to.

What are a couple things that,
that we could digest from

your, off the top of your head?

Matt Hanson: quite honestly, one
of the things that I absolutely

adore the most that I don't see
enough of is outdoor but done well.

Reed: Hmm.

Matt Hanson: what I mean
by that is years I've.

Kind of sat on the sidelines and collected
different ideas that I've seen through

the years, and technology allows us
to do all kinds of really fun things.

There's some crazy ones.

I remember, I think it was Big
Brother in Australia launched at

one point and they had a beacon.

was texting people at a bus stop.

I see you there.

And then 30 seconds later it
said, big brother launches on, you

know, tomorrow or whatever it was.

That's a little creepy.

But think if you do something in
the right context, in the right

environment, it becomes exciting.

So if it's a video game on a billboard
that you can scan a code and start to

play and you're interacting with it.

cool.

Like, that's

Reed: Mm-hmm.

Matt Hanson: Um,

Reed: Yeah.

Matt Hanson: but outdoor,
traditional signage, billboards,

even transit should be fun.

I mean, we're sitting there,
we're not doing anything.

let's, you know, gamify it, I guess,
a little bit more or do it in some

kind of creative manner that makes
you go, wow, that's really creative.

Uh, technology, again, like I said, has.

We waited years for the
smartphone to be in everyone's

hands, and we're finally here.

allows us to do some really fun things.

So I love talking about things
that people were doing 10, 15

years ago with smartphones that
are still mind blowing today.

One of the.

Greatest ones I've ever seen was the
Mini Cooper in Stockholm, Sweden.

I don't know if you're familiar
with this, but this was probably

10, 15 years ago at this point.

And so they dropped a virtual mini in
Stockholm and you had to, you're familiar

with Grand Theft Auto, the video game.

Reed: Oh yeah.

Matt Hanson: idea was basically you
go and you steal the car and then

you have to get away and it was

Reed: Oh,

Matt Hanson: like 48 hours and they
had players all over the city, and

when you got within 50 meters of
them, you could take the car and

Reed: cool.

Matt Hanson: car at the end of
the game won an actual mini.

Now mind you, this is, like I said,
10, 15 years ago before we had all of

this technology where we are today.

And be creative and use that technology.

So now we've got ai and then, you know,
everyone was talking about chat, GBT and

all those types of things, but now we're
talking about AI agents and, you know,

can create video just by, uh, you know,
just by using some of these websites.

So, you know, I use a, a website
that basically generates video.

And the idea is this,
that you have an idea.

And, uh, you literally take
the information, drop it in

there, it builds you a script.

You pick your avatar or somebody
else's avatar that you want.

turns it around and within an hour
you're breaking, cutting edge news

that's going on in the world and
you're the first to YouTube with it.

So technology is really cool
because it's sped everything up.

And from a marketer, I'm sure you're
well familiar with this move so much

faster than everyone else at this point.

Everyone's asking us, how do
you use AI for all this stuff?

So I think

Reed: Right.

Matt Hanson: is, is now because
we're moving faster where

it's going, I have no idea.

but you either adopt
it or you're gonna die.

It's kinda like if I was
still doing the 850,000 piece

direct mailer like I used to.

They'd be calling me grandpa and
everything else, uh, even though, you

know, some of my students and some of
my clients will call me that Anyway.

Reed: Well that's a great
note to end on and I, um.

You know, I'm excited.

I think I share your enthusiasm for AI
and technology and, you know, creativity.

You know, I think it can exist
in a lot of these traditional

channels and be really impactful.

Um, so where can people find you
if they'd like to learn more or

work with you where, you know,
where's the best place to reach you?

Matt Hanson: Sure, you can
always find me on LinkedIn.

It's Matt, B as in boy,
Hanson, H-A-N-S-O-N.

you can find me@digitalhelium.com.

And we also do a local podcast as well,
uh, called Mastering Local Marketing.

And, uh, you know, we just give one
or two snippets every single week to

small businesses that, again, don't
have a lot of knowledge in marketing.

But, uh, you know, reach out, send
me an email, shoot me a message.

Happy to just have a conversation.

Reed: Thanks so much, Matt.

Your expertise is really valuable
and you know, it seems like sometimes

some things are very accessible, but I
think your expertise in some of these

fields isn't so easy to get ahold of.

So, you know, I would really recommend
our audience to, reach out to

Matt for additional questions and

Matt Hanson: Sounds

Reed: you know, really a
pleasure to talk and thanks for

joining the podcast today and.

Hopefully we can stay in touch and you
know, we're both in the Chicagoland area.

Maybe we can meet up sometime.

Matt Hanson: good.

Can't wait.

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