Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside

Marketing with Market Surge.

Today we're diving into the creative
trenches with a guy who knows

how to turn pixels into profits.

Mike Vannelli.

Mike is the head of Creative at Envy
Creative, a video production agency

that's created over 3000 commercials
and branded videos for startups, local

businesses, and national brands alike.

He's mastered the art of grabbing
attention fast and keeping it

in a world where thumb stopping
content is the currency of growth.

Whether you're a marketer trying to crack
video a founder, figuring out how to

stand out, or just somebody who's tired
of hearing you need more content without a

strategy, this episode will hit different.

We'll unpack what makes video actually
convert, how Mike's team scales

creative for hundreds of clients, and
why production value isn't everything.

Mike, welcome to the show.

Mike Vannelli: For having me.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Yeah, my pleasure.

So, Mike, I understand that you and
your agency have produced over 3000

videos, uh, you know, of high quality.

Now, that's a huge number.

I mean, it, it's, you know, $3,000.

We probably spent $3,000 before,
but 3000 videos is a lot of work.

How did you get started in this world?

Like what's your, what,
what got you to this point?

And, um, you know, what,
what, what drives you?

Mike Vannelli: So, uh, so pretty much,
um, I've always been interested in film

and video when I was younger and I knew
I wanted to get into something like that.

Um, once I realized, you know, that
I wanted to actually make money doing

that, uh, you know, um, I, I kind of
looked around to see, you know, what

was out there where people would.

know, pay me to, to do video stuff.

Uh, so I actually started
doing just music videos for,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: kind of like
local artists and then.

Uh, I did that for years and, and ended up
working with some pretty big name artists.

But, um, you know, it was, it was
not boring, but it was kind of a

lot of the same, uh, so I wanted to
kind of deviate into something that

would be a little bit different.

Uh, and so what ended up happening
is I kind of thought, okay, what,

what other avenue can I take?

Where again, people are.

Giving me money to, to make video content.

Um, well back then it wasn't called
video content, it was just called videos.

So, um.

Commercials kind of seemed like
the, the other path to take.

And so kind of started out just, um,
that was really when, you know, and

I'm, I'm gonna sound old for saying
this, but that was back when, uh, a

lot of people were publishing to the
iPhone app store for the first time.

And so, uh, that was kind of
taking off, but a lot of people

didn't know how to market it.

So I kind of, um, reached out to a
lot of app store developers and just

said, Hey, you know, we're gonna.

We're starting to do videos for,
uh, you know, commercial content.

So, um, if you, if you need any
free videos for your app, let

me know and we can make 'em.

Um, and that was just kind of so we
could build the portfolio and then

yeah, we just kind of went from there,
uh, kind of growing and, and you know,

adding people to the team and yeah.

Um.

You know, I think, I think we just
passed like, about 5,000 videos.

Uh, you know, I was looking at

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh well.

Mike Vannelli: um, you know,
our archive the other day.

So, so yeah.

And, uh, you know, we've, we've
done everything from little mom

and pops to, you know, fortune 500
and, and everything in between.

So.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So you,
you know, I, I don't feel like

I have a real strong creative.

Streak in me.

I'm, I'm, um, I appreciate it that,
that quality in other people, but I'm,

I don't necessarily, uh, possess it.

So tell me a little bit
about your creative process.

So, you know, when you start working
with a client, you know, what sorts

of questions do you ask to kind of
get started, get the wheels rolling?

Um, what, what's that like?

Do you ex, do you expect them
to come with ideas on what it

should look like or, you know.

Mike Vannelli: Sure.

Yeah.

So we pretty much tell clients that they
can be as involved as they want in the, in

the production and the creative process.

Uh, you know, we have clients that come
to us with a script already in hand and

saying, you know, Hey, can you do this?

And we say, yes, we can.

And we have some clients that come
to us and say, we have no idea.

We have zero ideas, but
this is our product.

Can you do something with it?

And again, we say, we say yes you can.

And you know, again, it's like
a wide spectrum of, of you know,

how involved they want to be and
how involved they actually are.

Um, because we've done it for
so long and we've done so many

videos, we know pretty much exactly
how much, uh, the videos cost.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: what we can
include in our base pricing.

So for instance, um, our, our,
our best service, or not our best

service, but our most popular service
that we have is just kind of a.

uh, horizontal commercial explainer
video, and it's, uh, 30 seconds, that's

like the, the, the base price and
it's $500 and that's what we charge.

It's, um, includes script writing, it
includes up to three of our in-house

actors, and it's, it's, um, all inclusive.

So, so pretty much like I said,
if, if the client comes to us,

says, I have zero ideas, just.

do something, then they can, um, you
know, we're in the Los Angeles area, so

obviously if they need specific kind of
looking people or if they need cu uh,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: locations, then,
then we can do that for them.

But pretty much because, uh, you
know, you for the, for the, uh, video

viewers, you can kind of see different.

Like a front door back there and you
kind of see an office back there.

So we have a 5,000 square foot
studio with a bunch of standing sets.

And when we were building out our studio,
we kind of, uh, thought, okay, what, what

do people normally see in commercials?

So we have like a house set,
we have an office set off to

the left of me is our cafe set.

So pretty kind of like generic locations
that you would see in commercials.

but because we have like all of our.

Our, all of our writers and all of our
actors and our, you know, we own our own

own equipment and we have our own sets.

So our bandwidth is pretty, like, we
have a very high bandwidth for projects

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: uh, because we
do everything in house, we can

also be very competitive with our
pricing for, for what you get.

So, that's kind of the long, long

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah,
no, I mean, I think, you know,

this is really good information.

I am, um, not, not very
well versed in this area.

Do you, um, so obviously it, uh, you
know, these are, you film these videos.

Do you work with clients that
you never meet in person?

Is this, can they, can this
be fully remote that, um,

Mike Vannelli: Yeah,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: content process?

Mike Vannelli: would say 95% of our
client base is just fully remote.

You know, they, uh, they
either email us or we, um.

They message us on Fiverr, which that's
our kind of main, uh, that's kind of

our main platform that we work with.

And that's kind of where we
like to do all of our projects.

Uh, 'cause it's, it's pretty organized
and, you know, like the, the backend

isn't handled by us, it's handled by.

You know, the, the, the company.

And so, um, and, you know, all of our
pricing's laid out and, and, uh, even if

they don't know what they want, we can
always just send them there and they can

kind of browse and, and things like that.

But yeah.

Um, you know, 95% of the, the client base
we have, uh, we, we never, ever meet.

We never, you know, we're just
messaging or, or emailing.

Uh, occasionally we'll have Zoom calls,
but usually that's for very, uh, kind of.

Specific projects that they really need
to, you know, show us something or, or

kind of hash it out, or just for people
that, that like to talk through stuff or,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Interesting.

Mike Vannelli: But, um, but yeah,
you know, we, we kind of, we,

we tried to do a very, uh, um,
a very like inclusive, but very.

Easy way for clients to, you know, to get
in touch and kind of to see what we offer.

And even after that, uh, once they
place an order, we have what's

called our creative brief form.

And um, it's just a online
kind of questionnaire form.

Takes about five minutes
for them to fill out.

But we've really kind of honed it
over the years and it really gives us.

All the pieces of information we
need to be able to write a script

for them, um, you know, in an easy
way for them to be able to do it.

But at the same time, you know, we,
we know by now what we need to be

able to write the script and, and,
you know, it's, it's not as much as

you think, but you know, there are a
couple questions on there that, you

know, that make them think a little bit.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's awesome.

Alright, well let's zoom out a
little bit because I, I would love

to learn from your expertise overall.

Now, a lot of brands, you know,
so I, you know, a lot of people in

my audience are in the small and
medium sized business space and, um.

You know, they're sometimes in
DIY mode when it comes to like

creating videos, video content.

What, what would you say I'll,
I'll frame this question as,

um, what do a lot of DIYers get?

Wrong about creating video
content for their brand.

Uh, you know, recently is are there a
lot of assumptions you're seeing out

there, or, or certain videos you see
over, over and over again that just you

think could be, you know, done better

Mike Vannelli: Yeah, so, so.

If you would've asked me a year
ago, my answer would be different

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: interest?

Mike Vannelli: because, uh, about a year
ago, um, I would've said that, you know,

if you're doing it, the DIY way, just
kind of see what other people are, you

know, are doing on TikTok or whatever.

And, um, and just, you know, start
creating content, even if it's just,

you know, holding up the phone and,
and talking selfie style to it.

But nowadays we've actually kind
of seen a shift in our clients.

Um.

they're, what they're wanting from
video content, because before they

wanted all, you know, UGC user
generated content where it looks very

natural and it looks, uh, you know,
not scripted and things like that.

But, uh, the feedback that we've
gotten is recently, especially in

the ad space and things like that,
is that videos like that are so.

Oversaturated right now where if
you're scrolling through TikTok,

you know, every other video is
an ad and they're all like that.

And so, you know, uh, consumers
are, are they're, they're pretty.

They catch on pretty quick.

And so if they, if they see it's an ad
you know, it's, uh, it's just somebody

talking to the camera like that, they'll,
you know, they've been scrolling past.

And so what we've been getting feedback
from our clients about is that if

they're gonna be paying for video
content, then they want it to be unique.

They want it to be creative.

So, which is, which is nice for people
like us because when we had to hop on

the TikTok bandwagon a few years ago.

And started making just kind of like,
you know, UGC style selfie stuff, you

know, it was great, but it wasn't like
super creative that we were used to.

So now it's kind of
flipping back to that way.

So, um, so when it comes to
people, DIYing, you know, I

would steer away from just.

You know, holding up the
phone, doing it selfie style.

Um, you know, it doesn't have to
be super, uh, high budget or high

production value, but it just,
just make it, I guess, unique, you

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: of, um, you know, think
of something unique to your brand.

Maybe think of, uh, something
unique about your product.

Show that off rather than just
holding up your phone, you know,

talking to it, um, you know, or,
or higher outside help like us.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah, I mean,
I think that makes a lot of sense.

Um, do now.

Uh, you know, I imagine among other
things that have changed, uh, in

the time you've been doing video
production is, uh, attention spans

and, you know, so we've got, uh.

You know, typically, so I remember
when YouTube came out, that was really

exciting and, and, uh, you know, I'd,
I'd sit and watch this whole video and

then I'd watch the next whole video.

And, um, you know, I'm, I'm getting older.

I've got kids that are teens and, and, um.

But, you know, and they, they,
you know, they're just scrolling,

scrolling, scrolling, scrolling.

You know, they watch like
a few seconds of a video.

How, how do you create videos
that are engaging in that context?

'cause they're often not watching
the whole video or they're, you

know, even if they like it, they
might not be able to get through

a, you know, more than 30 seconds.

What, how do you create video in
this environment where people are

just so scattered and, you know,
like just, just scrolling like crazy.

Mike Vannelli: Yeah, so, so, um, a
lot of it, I, I would say about half

of it does have to depend on what
platform you're looking to post it on.

So,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Mike Vannelli: if a client comes
to us, says, uh, you know, we're

really wanting to push TikTok.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: we will
kind of lean into that.

Um, you know, obviously do a vertical
format and we will try to, we'll try

to kind of get their attention in the
first, you know, in the first second.

You know, like, try to, try to start
it off with either imagery or something

happening on screen or, or something
that gets get, that gets their attention.

Um, what we've been doing a
lot of recently is we've been,

uh, doing multiple hooks for.

Client videos.

So for instance, um, pretty much
nine, the, the back 90% will be

the same in say, let's, let's
say we're doing three versions.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: Um, back 90% will
be exactly the same in all three.

But just the, the first, you know,
couple seconds or the first couple lines.

Those will be different with all
three so that they can AB test, so

they can see, you know, which one
is, which one is working the best.

And especially on TikTok, because
TikTok is the most expensive

when it comes to, uh, ad spend.

I think it's minimum is like $50 a day.

So you really want to see what's working
and what's not to be able to, um, put

money towards the thing that is working.

Um, but you know, when it comes
to like things like YouTube or

Facebook, uh, you know, we have a
little bit more time, a little more.

Creativity because, especially with
YouTube, because people kind of are

there to watch, whether that's, um,
you know, a, uh, an ad going before

a video or just the, a video that
they're uploading to their YouTube page.

Um, with that, you know, we try to
keep it shorter, you know, under,

under 30 seconds so that if it's
going up as an ad, it's not skippable.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: but yeah, you
know, at least within the first

15 seconds, we want to, uh, kind
of give the viewer, um, something

that they're gonna be taking away.

So, uh, for instance, in our creative
brief form, we have one question that

is, uh, for your video, if you, if you
could say one feature or one takeaway that

the user or the viewer is going to see.

Uh, what do you want it to be?

And so, you know, they can give us
other details, but we're pretty much

asking, you know, what do you want the
person to remember about your product

or brand, or, you know, what, uh,
what's the one thing you wanna focus on?

And we kind of, you know, focus the
video around that so that, you know,

the, if the video's funny or, or
whatever, um, you know, at least they're

kind of remembering this one thing
that, you know, the, the takeaway.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

No, I, I, this is all like gold wisdom.

I love it.

Um, now.

Uh, you know, we in, in kind of the
digital marketing space where I'm working

with a lot of marketing automation
and ads management and, um, you know,

we're, we're mindful that AI is touching
like every aspect of what we're doing.

Um, you know, it's affecting
it in, in one way or another.

And, um.

Uh, you know, how, how is it
affecting your, your niche?

Like, are you finding that you're
competing with people that are trying to

generate AI videos, or do you find people
that, uh, you, you know, conversely like,

is, is the effect of so much inter AI
generated content really helping you?

Mike Vannelli: Um, it's, it.

of depends on who you ask, I guess,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: sure.

Mike Vannelli: uh, on the one side, you
know, we get, we get clients that come

to us and say, Hey, I need a 32nd video.

Um, you know, can you help me?

And we chat for a little bit.

And, you know, they might,
uh, they might bring up, you

know, well, you know, I, I, um.

I can also get this done with ai.

So kind of keep that in mind
when you're giving me a quote.

And, you know, we kind of have to
explain to them like, okay, well none

of us, none of the things we do as ai.

Like it's, you know, our

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Mike Vannelli: it's, and you know,
it's all kind of, uh, you know, you're

getting our experience with it as well.

And, and, um.

you know, then we, we also get clients
that come to us and say, Hey, we tried

using AI and here is the AI video
that it generated, and it's not great.

Can you, but this is kind of
the direction we want to go.

Can

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Mike Vannelli: you know, can
you kind of make a, you know,

make a good version of it?

And, uh, we have been
getting that recently,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Mike Vannelli: definitely nice to hear.

Um.

Recently on our, uh, on our Envy
Creative YouTube page, we, uh, we used

to do a lot of film review and, and,
uh, gear review kind of for peers.

Uh, and, and we recently just flipped it
where now it's gonna be focusing more on.

kind of, uh, selling to our
clients and, you know, marketing

tips, things like that.

Especially revolving
around video marketing.

Um, you know, kind of one asterisk
tidbit, you know, that, uh, that, you

know, we, we would kind of recommend
is if you're gonna be making videos,

make sure you're trying to sell to
your customers, not to your peers.

Um,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

Mike Vannelli: uh, but
yeah, we, we have a, um.

We have a, uh, kind of a series set up
that we're still working on, but it's

just called NV versus ai, and pretty
much what we're doing is we're kind

of taking generic products that we.

Uh, that, you know, we, we have and
we're making a short commercial for it.

And then we're taking that exact
same script, exact same everything.

And then, you know, there's a lot of
video AI generation, uh, software out

there, and so we're putting it into that.

I'm really good at writing prompts,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Mike Vannelli: you know, and
I'm kind of following what.

The, you know, the best practices
are for getting the best video.

And so, so far, you know, from, uh,
what we're working on behind the

scenes, we haven't posted anything
yet, but it's, it's pretty eye-opening,

I guess, to, uh, not, not in a good
way for the ai, just seeing that

it's like, it's really not there yet.

So we're, uh, we're kind of doing
it more, you know, as a kind of

PSA saying, like, Hey, you know,
we took the exact same script, the

exact same product, everything else.

Here's our version that we make,
and here's the AI version so that,

you know, they can, they can make
the, the, the decision themselves.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

No, I like it.

I, that's a, that's very clever.

Um, you know, I, I frequently, I'm up
against, you know, the authenticity

versus like volume or speed.

You know, trying to balance those
two, uh, decisions and, you know,

I'm, lately, I'm finding myself coming
more and more onto the authenticity

and, and original content, uh, side of
things and, and just really seeing how.

Um, I guess just like we're, we're hit
with a tsunami every day in our inbox

and, and on our social media feeds of
what's clearly AI generated content

that I just don't, I don't have time
to read it, but when I see something

that looks a little bit like homemade,
I mean, I'm not saying that you're

homemade, but looks like genuine.

Uh, you know, that, that, that catches
my eye more so than it did in the past.

Um.

Well, Mike, this is super interesting
and, and I think that you have a

great offer for, uh, you know, you
know, people that would be in my

audience and, and you know, I'd really
encourage them to reach out to you.

Where can they find you if
they'd, if they'd like to

create some content with you?

Mike Vannelli: So best way
is just to go to our website.

It's uh, think nv.com,

so that's T-H-I-N-K-E-N-V y.com.

Or if you just Google
NV Creative, we're you.

Know we're the top
result on, on everything.

So,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.

Well, thanks so much, Mike.

It was a pleasure.

Mike Vannelli: yeah.

Thanks Reed.

Speaker 2: Want to stay ahead of what's
actually working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
grow smarter, faster, and louder.

That's market surge.io

because your next breakthrough
shouldn't be a guess.