Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside

Marketing with Market Surge.

Today we've got a guest who's
shaking up how brands grow online

and doing it in one of the most
overlooked corners of the internet.

Reddit.

Our guest is Danny Kirk, who's the
founder of Ready Reach, a bootstrapped

marketing agency that's helped over
500 brands grow organically on Reddit.

While also optimizing for AI
search Platforms Chat, GPT and

Claude, for example, he's not just
playing in the Reddit sandbox.

He's rewriting the playbook for how brands
can show up authentically and dominate

community conversations, even future
proof their content for the age of AI from

building multiple seven figure companies
without outside funding to pioneering what

he calls generative engine optimization.

Danny's approach is all about
real engagement and turning Reddit

threads into real world results.

Let's dive in.

So glad to have you, Danny.

Danny Kirk: Thanks for having me.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.

So now Danny, you've built a business
around a platform that a lot of

brands instinctively avoid because
of the crowdsource nature of it.

Tell us why you focused on Reddit.

where did you see the potential what
problem, were you trying to tackle?

Danny Kirk: Yeah, certainly.

so, um, you know, I've been
a long time Reddit user.

Just like most people, you lurk for
about half a decade and then you

start engaging in the second half,
You know, a lot of my actions on there

have nothing to do with business cat
videos, ultra running, all that jazz.

But, um.

we had our agency for about getting close
to a decade now doing, other things.

But as I saw the AI search wave coming and
how heavily Reddit was being cited a few

years back, we started to roll that out to
our clients and it was an immediate win.

And I think.

It's just a huge opportunity
right now as well.

So it's not only an interesting channel
that nobody else is doing, but right

now our client's competitors, there's
only 5% of brands that are actually

doing anything about Reddit and AI
search right now, and that's one of

the biggest opportunities I've seen
for any of our clients in 15 years.

so it's only gonna get
harder each day after this.

Everyone that was saying, I wish
I'd got into SEO 25 years ago,

they should be thinking about
what they're saying right now.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: A
confession here, I have in the

past attempted to market businesses
clumsily with either a branded.

A user account on Reddit or an
unbranded user account or a combination

of the two, trying to like, make
posts talking favorably about a

certain topic or the business itself.

And you run up against community
moderators or community rules

where they just, they'll ban you.

They, the commenters just eviscerate
you, you know, there does seem to

be kind of like a cultural bias.

among the Raiders to not
be so friendly to that.

How do you overcome that?

Danny Kirk: Yeah, there is
a lot of skeptics on Reddit.

That's like probably the hardest
part, the big barrier to entry.

So Reddit is a totally open platform.

You don't even need an
account to go engage.

So that's kind of cool.

But then the community, Itself is
the moderator effectively, you know,

they're moderating the whole thing.

And I actually think that's a great thing.

it keeps bad actors out.

The good rises to the top usually.

But kind of like how we do that.

so there's a lot of different
Reddit marketers out there.

Three weeks ago I was actually
told by a big agency owner, that

I was the first non sketchy Reddit
marketer she'd ever spoken to.

Yeah, it is.

You know, I'll put it on
my gravestone probably.

But, we on the high end
of the ethics scale.

There's plenty of things that are done
on Reddit that are at the opposite end.

So what we focus on is being honest,
being truthful in what we, the content

we put out there, not misrepresenting.

We actually follow all FTC rules and I
have never heard another Reddit marketer

actually utter the words FTC before.

'cause we represent 10 figure
brands, we have seven to 10 figure

brands on our client roster.

So tons of lawyers, everyone,
you know, can't mess up people's

brands even if it's anonymous.

So we go on there and really focus
on whether you are acting as a

first party, so a branded account.

Or if you are acting more anonymous as a
third party account, always be helpful.

Always follow the rules,
always act genuine.

Be truthful.

Don't misrepresent, just as kind of
rules of thumb, and you'll probably

have a good experience on there.

If you do the opposite of that,
you're not gonna have a good time.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Tell
us a little bit about, what

an engagement would look like.

Say I was a brand that was interested in.

Reddit and its potential I assume you,
you get to know the brand and what they

talk about, but is it creating posts?

Is it, comments, how do you operationalize
this and do the marketing for the brand?

Danny Kirk: Certainly.

So, you know, the overarching kind of goal
and outcome are twofold for our clients.

So they want to dive into these
incredibly niche subreddits where

their thousand true fans are.

So that's goal number one, and
market on, on Reddit organically.

And then goal number two,
kind of the bigger one.

Is to be picked up by AI search.

So Reddit is the largest single
source of training data right now.

It actually dropped a lot
in the past three weeks and

the world was freaking out.

It's still 20, 30% of all training data,
so it's a still a very large percentage.

It used to be like 80%.

But so that's the other
outcome that people want.

And I say that just to kind
of define like what we do, so.

AI is looking for great
human interactions.

Human interactions happen on
the comment level within Reddit.

So you have Reddit, you have your
subreddits, you have posts people make,

and then you have the comments, the
discussions underneath those posts, and

that's where human interactions come from.

So that's actually what AI is reading
and trying to pull signal from

as far as those interactions go.

And then the great news.

That's where human interactions happen,
so your customers can find you on there.

So we focus on really amazing comments,
like I said, that are genuine, helpful,

factually accurate and truthful that
hopefully help the reader first.

So we want to help other Reddit users
first and then mention our clients

brand second, and then because of
that get picked up by AI search.

And then finally.

The third aspect of this is Google
ranks Reddit links on page one.

So it's like this whammy.

You get a three for one kind of
marketing channel for just doing that.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Do you do
the paid advertising on Reddit or is

that just not part of the engagement?

Danny Kirk: We just do organic actually.

So a couple different things.

I have no experience in ads,
so I shouldn't be running them.

all of us kind of OG Reddit users
always make fun of Reddit ads.

So we're like kind of
skeptical in general.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Danny Kirk: because yet again,
like you said, Reddit is very.

Anti-marketing, anti sales, anti stuff.

Ads are like the worst version of that.

You know, it's like clearly somebody
trying to sell you something.

So doing it organically,
we see more effective.

And then also, AI search is
not scraping ads on Reddit.

They're scraping comments and content.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay, so let's
go down the rabbit hole of AI, SEO or GEO.

Maybe tell us a little bit
about what, GEO is and and.

it sounds like a great channel to be
working through, but, are there any

other opportunities, any other things
that you see there in that world?

I mean, it's a little bit of
a mystery to a lot of brands.

how do you get ranked and what's
the future like for search?

Danny Kirk: Yeah, absolutely.

And the big disclaimer that this industry
is like six months old, so it will, you

know, we'll publish this in a week and
it'll probably be old news by then, but

you know, first of all, you actually
have to get good intel on your brand and

how they're being ranked by competitors.

Now in the SEO world, that was.

Simr, that was a HA HFS refs, sorry,
I mispronounced that horribly, sorry.

Company.

But in AI search I use
a tool called Peekaboo.

So we'll have this in the show
notes, but ai peekaboo.com,

and it's essentially just
like simr, but for AI search.

So you go in there, put your URL, and then
it ranks, like, gives you a total score.

Like, hey, here's how you're
doing an AI search, and then

relative to your competitors.

For what prompts on what channels, what
you can optimize for and what you can't.

So that's the first and foremost,
like just how are you doing?

You know, you go into a doctor's
office and they triage you first

before they start prescribing stuff.

So that's step number one.

And we love a tool called
Peekaboo for all of our clients.

And then from there it's really
kind of looking at the channel.

So Reddit is certainly not
the only one for AI search.

I'm calling it AI search.

'cause nobody's decided on an acronym.

G-E-O-A-E-O.

Nobody can get it, right?

So AI search in general we love Reddit,
but there's other ones out there.

So first and foremost, SEO in
general is still a good thing.

It's not going anywhere.

It's just kind of evolving.

So like.

Blog content and whatnot is great.

Optimizing one's website I
actually get a ton of link leads

from my LinkedIn content, so AI
is scraping LinkedIn as well.

Wikipedia, if that's
relevant to your business.

It's not relevant to most
businesses, but Wikipedia is a

huge source of training data.

YouTube as well.

AI is scraping those too, so there's
a bunch of different sources out

there, and then it's really also
relative to your brand and business.

All the weights of all of those
sources will change relative

to who you're targeting, what
channels they're on and whatnot.

But as I said, Reddit is still a
huge single source of training data.

There's subreddits for.

The most obscure things out there.

So most companies have a thousand
true fans on there, or a million.

True.

So that's.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

No, that's great.

So now speaking about Reddit in
particular Reddit is probably one of

the platforms that most represents
how, like long tail marketing, very

specific niches can, you know, you
can create communities around it.

You know, there's obviously been.

A lot of those around, but Reddit
seems to be the most thriving place

where you could get deep into a
topic and interact with other people

that are also deep in the topic.

Do you think that is important for a
brand to, to emphasize, that they're like

say I'm starting a business of any kind.

Do, should I be thinking about trying
to engage the most people or trying to.

Engage people at just
at a very deep level.

Do you know, broad versus deep?

Do you what are your thoughts on that
and how how does that manifest on Reddit?

Danny Kirk: Yeah, I always think
engaging on a deep level is best

deep means that you've achieved
product market fit, in my opinion.

You know, it's not a hundred million true
fans, it's a thousand true fans, you know?

So I, I always recommend kind
of the deeper, the better.

And then, you know, on Reddit,
that means going and finding

that subreddit or subreddits.

Usually there's more than
one for most companies.

And really, truly understanding
A, the rules of each subreddit.

And then more importantly, the
ethos of each subreddit, how people

act, what's important to them.

And.

It probably shouldn't be a surprise at
all because if these are your true fans,

you probably already know that a little
bit, but really kind of understanding

and appreciating that because that'll
kind of inform how you act on Reddit,

what wording you use, how promotional or
promotional you are, things like that.

So that's really important to it.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Now, if we zoom out a little bit be
interested in your perspective, as

somebody that's had multiple exits.

You've done you've built your
current business but you've

had previous successes.

what are some of the
learnings that you've had?

Do you think this.

Do you think this pervades your
other startups that you've, gone

really deep versus really broad?

Is that something you'd recommend
overall as a business strategy?

Danny Kirk: Yeah, certainly Danny 15 years
ago was saying yes to everything and.

And yeah, that's, I think most
people make that mistake early on.

I certainly did.

So yeah, trying to be everything to
everyone versus just doing one thing

and doing it better than everyone else.

One thing is really easy to sell
unless you're Amazon to everything

store, but it's hard to be Amazon.

One thing is really easy to.

Sell multiple things and it's harder to
sell because the messaging gets diluted.

So ready Reach has been super successful.

My most successful business to
date, mainly because of our focus

and kind of a single offer that we
try to be best at the planet on.

So that's something, certainly
something that I wish I could

put in a time capsule and send
backwards in time to my earlier self.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: awesome.

and do you use Reddit marketing for ready
reach for instance, to promote it, are

you eating your own dog food, so to speak?

Danny Kirk: You know, I
actually don't as much.

I have a interesting theory
that many people disagree with

me on, and that, I think that's
called secret sauce, actually.

Um, that you shouldn't,
I shouldn't say never.

You should be skeptical about.

If you're a marketer, um, marketing,
um, services for the channel that

you're using to market them on.

You know, obviously many people
on LinkedIn don't do this.

There's so many marketers on LinkedIn
saying they can help you on LinkedIn,

but especially since Red is a super
skeptical place I don't see that

as a winning strategy for my offer.

Now, having said that, I'm big on
LinkedIn because that's where my.

Thousand true fans are, and they're
not skeptical and they're open-minded.

So yeah, for better or for worse, I
don't eat my own dog food just 'cause

of that own strategy, but we still
have amazing successes for our clients.

And at any one time these days, we're
serving about 45, 7 to 10 figure brands.

And actually I think we're
just about to get our second

10 figure brand on next week.

So I'm pretty excited about that.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's awesome.

All right I've gotta ask,
what's your favorite subreddit?

Danny Kirk: Yeah, for sure.

A couple different ones come to mind.

I've got a Norwegian forest cat, so
Norwegian forest cats is pretty awesome.

They're just very fluffy.

They look like a Maine coon.

They're relatives to
Maine Coon ultra running.

I've been in that recently.

There's a subreddit called, maybe, maybe,
maybe it's just these video clips of

people like, you know, almost failing,
but not, you know, they're like trying

to write a segue and it's just like
this and, you know, it just goes on

for too long and, you know, you're kind
of holding your breath the whole time.

Yeah.

Watch people die Inside is a great one.

Just like kind of cringe videos and stuff.

They're so good.

And what's, what the even weirdest
part is that like each one of those

has an even more obscure subreddit
sometimes, you know, then there's like

cats with jobs, you know, and like,

And there's actually I think a
subreddit called maybe, maybe, maybe,

maybe four maybes because, you know,
three maybes wasn't quite good enough.

So that's just one thing
I love about Reddit.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yes.

Do.

Okay.

So do you follow, or think that there are
other social media platforms that, or even

more like forum based platforms that have
potential to either displace Reddit or

take a different, create their own niche
in any interesting things you've seen.

Danny Kirk: Displaced Reddit maybe
as an actual competitor to Reddit?

Like a Reddit to Reddit?

I don't think so.

they've, been unprofitable for
20 years and now they're finally

like getting a bunch of money.

So I think that.

they always had the community
and now they have the money.

So I think they're probably set
other social media certainly.

somebody that I chat with
a lot does a lot on TikTok.

I'm 37 years old, so that
ship has sailed for me.

but yeah, I think certainly other
social media, is pretty compelling.

LinkedIn, as I said, YouTube, I
think I have a face for radio, so I'm

not very good on YouTube very much.

but yeah, I think
there's plenty out there.

I'm a big time believer and, a type of
marketer that doesn't say like, Hey,

this channel is the best for everyone.

It's like, no, you gotta go find
where your tribe is at if they're

not on, you know, it's like.

if I was marketing to 98 year
olds, yeah, I wouldn't be using

Reddit or LinkedIn to do that.

You know, be knocking on
doors at, old people homes and

whatnot as my marketing channel.

But, yeah, so it's all about really
finding where your tribe is at and

then understanding, those communities,
those platforms, whether it's Reddit

or something totally different.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: awesome.

So maybe talking about AI in general,
are there, obviously you're, you're

very immersed in all things ai.

Are there other AI tools that
you really like, that you use

personally in your day-to-day life?

I, you gave us a great one with peekaboo.

That was really cool.

Any other unique tools that you've
been exposed to that, that strike as

Danny Kirk: You,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: interesting?

Danny Kirk: you know, I obviously
use chat GPT all day long.

I think that's incredibly powerful.

I love, you know, it's kind of a
question right now of will AI be so good?

Generally speaking, like general
intelligence, will we achieve that?

Because if we achieve general
intelligence, then chat, GPT wins.

'cause you don't need
an app for everything.

'cause this one chat thing can just.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

Danny Kirk: It can build you the
website or go do deep research on

climate change, whatever it might be.

It's like if we reach
general intelligence, then a

general app will work well.

If that takes longer, then maybe
some of these specialized apps

will kind of take off more.

And obviously they're already
taking off, but that's just kind of

like, I'm curious which way we go.

You know, I needed to build an
internal tool, for my company and I

just played around on was it render?

No, not render.

Um.

Oh, I'm blanking on the, um,
it's like a vibe coding tool.

Um, a couple months ago.

And yeah, you know, within an afternoon
for 25 bucks, I built something that

was moderately functional, worked pretty
well, had troubleshooted it with the, AI

builder for four hours and it was like.

A decently functioning tool.

I then went out and found, a
platform that actually did what

I needed and then bought that.

But it was super cool, you know,
for such a low barrier to entry.

So that, that stuff
makes me super excited.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Yeah, I agree with you.

I've been working with
Cursor for a few months and.

Danny Kirk: Yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: just in the few
months I've used it, it is so much better.

it's like the learning curve of AI
just is, if, you use it the first time,

you're like, wow, that's really cool.

But then if you use it for a few
months and like how fast it can

improve, it is, pretty mind blowing.

it doesn't really compare to anything
like, in our, human experience, you know?

and in a good way, I think.

Danny Kirk: Yeah.

And I think it's just such a,
um, a liberating thing for a

lot of people in the world.

I mean, you know, technical people use
it for technical things, but also giving.

all of humanity's knowledge to
somebody in Sub-Saharan Africa

or in Bangladesh, or that doesn't
have the resources that we do.

I think that's an incredible thing
and I really hope that brings up a

lot of people because that's like
the true inspiration behind it all.

It's not just like making us, you
know, 10% more efficient at our jobs.

It's like, man, how can we help?

half the planet, kind of
rise up a little bit more.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: my totally
comment is man, it has done so

much for me as a humanities major.

I feel like I've been liberated, and
that's anyway Danny, great insights.

You obviously have a really cool
tool and a great approach to.

SEO that seems to be really conscious
of, the shifting marketplace with ai.

if people wanna work with
you, how can they find you?

What are the best,
platforms to reach you on?

Danny Kirk: Yeah, for sure.

So you can go to my
website ready reach.com.

R-E-D-D-I-R-E-A-C h.com.

There's a link there where you can reach
out, schedule a call, time, all that jazz.

I'm very active on LinkedIn.

You can type in Danny Kirk.

Ready, reach, or.

My handle is slash Daniel P as
in Patrick, Kirk Daniel pki.

You can find me on there, shoot
me a dm, shoot me your website.

I can give you kind of my hot take
on your brand and see if it might

be worthwhile to have a discussion.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Thank you so much Danny.

This was a great interview
and love your energy outlook.

So thanks so much for coming on.

Danny Kirk: Awesome, Reid.

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.