Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside

Marketing with Market Surge.

Today's guest is a marketer who
doesn't believe in guessing, hoping,

or spraying prey advertising.

John Dwyer.

JD is the mastermind behind some of
the most successful direct response

campaigns in Australia, including the
iconic promotion that brought Jerry

Seinfeld into the world of banking ads and
shattered sales records in the process.

J D's core belief.

Marketing exists to make the cash register
ring period, and he spent his career

proving that even the smallest businesses
can compete if they understand how to use

incentives, problem solution messaging,
and what he calls the wow factor.

Today we're pulling back the curtain on
how small and medium sized businesses

can stop wasting money, start
standing out, and create the kind of

offers that customers can't ignore.

Jd, welcome to the show.

John: Thank you Reed.

That guy sounds pretty important.

I wanna listen to him.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh, absolutely.

we're excited to dive right in.

Um, so tell us for listeners that
are listening for the first time,

describe what you do and what
problems you are typically solving

for the businesses you work with.

John: Well, Reid, you know, I guess
the best way to explain what we

do is direct response marketing.

It's very different from just
normal, regular marketing.

I mean, if you are going to an
advertising agency, normally they will

say, look, we'll help you get people
to, fall in love with your brand

so that they'll taste your product.

direct marketing does is
it, it flips that model.

And what we do is try and get
them to taste your product so that

they'll fall in love with your brand.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

John: And the best way to to, to
explain that would be if you were a

seafood shop instead of, you know,
sponsoring the local basketball teams

and the grid iron teams and so forth.

And hoping I love that phrase
that you said in the beginning.

A spray, spray and play.

Is that it?

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Spray and pray.

John: Spray and pray instead of
doing that whereby, you know, nothing

wrong with, you know, throwing
some money at the local, you know,

basketball and netball competitions.

But by the same token,
that's not measurable.

What we would say to that seafood
shop, look, why don't you hand our

calamari samples at lunchtime and
dinnertime with some staff hoping that

people would taste, test that, and
then come into the seafood shop and

spend more money on the expensive fish.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: And so, you know,
like the thing is, is that.

most of the small to medium sized
businesses cannot sponsor the Olympics.

And they, you know, would not be able
to afford to put their face on the

side of a bus or the back of a taxi.

And all of that stuff is
immeasurable in any case.

So just leave that to McDonald's and Nike.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: and what we say to small business
owners is that make sure that you know

what you're spending today, whether
it be on Facebook or whether it be a

letterbox brochure or whatever it may be.

Make sure that it's measurable tomorrow.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Okay.

No, that's, that's fantastic.

So do you, you know, you've worked
with small, medium sized businesses,

large businesses, like I saw
McDonald's and KFC and seven 11.

Are there patterns between
the two Obviously like budgets

are vastly different for
marketing, but are there certain.

Threads that carry through
both categories of businesses.

John: Yeah, there is.

The thing is it's pretty much the
same formula, whether it happens to

be the local, you know, corner grocery
store or whether it happens to be

McDonald's, direct response marketing,
really is, as that name infers, it's

about getting a result very quickly.

never had a client yet, whether it
be McDonald's or the local store.

That's knocked on my door and
said, oh, John, can you, increase

our revenue and take your time?

You know, we're not really in a hurry.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

John: of the people who knock on
our door, you know, they want to

be advertising on Facebook today
and getting a result tomorrow.

And I guess the best way
to explain it would be.

solutions.

I mean, there's, there's five
components of direct response.

Number one, you tell people what
their problem is and that might

be, look at you overweight.

Number two, you aggravate that problem.

So therefore you say, look, do you
realize the summers around the corner?

Do you wanna look good in your swimsuit?

Number three, you provide the
solution, which in that instance would

be a, you know, a dietary program.

Number four, you provide proof,
which generally is testimonials.

And then number five is a
strong CTA call to action.

And that normally has come on
the program now, and you will.

Not only, you know, be able to hopefully
lose weight, but we're gonna give you

a free dining voucher at the healthy
restaurant or whatever it may be.

and all of that, if you, if you bring
that back to just two words is problem,

solution, you know, highlight their
problem and give them a solution.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: So I assume
that there's some like lessons from the

school of hard knocks that got you here.

I mean, I'm implying this
or inferring this, that, um,

you, probably had to learn.

Or go down some wrong roads to arrive
at this point, because what you're

describing sounds very sensible and
intuitive about direct marketing

or direct response marketing.

How did you get there?

How, maybe what are some
of the dead ends you hit?

John: Yeah, well look, really,
I'm, I'm very lucky because I've

never made a mistake in my life.

So so, and if I'm doing a seminar or
convention, and if my wife's down the

back, she rolls her eyes because she
knows what the tagline of that's gonna be.

Where I say, look, I don't know
how your people can, you know,

live with making mistakes.

I've never made a mistake.

And then I stop and go, oh, look.

Fair enough.

In 1982, I did make a mistake,
but the mistake I made was I

thought I had made a mistake.

So boom, boom.

Dad jokes, you know?

Yeah.

Look, I've made every mistake
you could possibly make,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yes.

John: had a rollercoaster
ride, like all entrepreneurs.

And so therefore it has
not been a mer around.

And my wife, of course, yeah,
I don't think she used to bite

her nails until she married me.

And, we've got six millennial
children, so therefore there was, uh.

myself, my wife, and six kids, at
one stage under 12, many years ago.

so there eight people that we
had to feed and my wife was silly

enough to, marry an entrepreneur.

she's nuts.

I guess the big mistakes that I
made back in the early days when

I went out on my own, to become, a
marketing agency is that I didn't

understand direct response at the time.

So, you know, I thought that if I had
a ski shop as in ski with snow, that if

I came up with a clever tagline, which
was wait for it, it was called in Ski

I-N-S-K-I, and I was 23 or 24 years
of age, and I thought I came up with

the best advertising campaign ever.

It was in ski, the place to go
before the snow, and I wondered

why there wasn't a stampede of
people coming through the door.

So, yes, I was sickeningly bad.

And so therefore, when I was picking up
a few of these clients, giving them what

I thought was good advertising advice,
but what it was was branding advice.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

John: realize is that the vast majority
of them did not have a McDonald's budget.

They couldn't afford to, you
know, do the brand building thing.

They needed to put food on
the table pretty quickly.

And I always tell the story now is that
if anyone in small business still lives

on that branding sort of philosophy,
go home tonight and say to all the

kids around the table who are hungry.

Look, daddy got 152 likes today and.

But dad, there's nothing to eat, right?

Yeah.

these days we I mean,
we've got a, a concept.

I, I found that smaller, medium
sized businesses don't want advice.

Okay?

So I discovered that a few years
back and realized that they don't

have a marketing department.

They don't have anyone who
can implement these, you know,

great ideas that I give them.

And I'm being sarcastic
when I say great ideas.

But the thing is, is that I can give
them whatever, you know, ideas I want.

They don't have anyone to implement them.

So I thought, well, no, this is silly.

What small to medium sized businesses
want is a system, a formula.

They want something that's done for them.

So that's what we do now, we provide,
you know, whether it be Facebook or

Instagram or whether it be, you know,
even old school, you know, newspaper,

TV campaigns, we actually just give
it to them and they pay a, a success

fee if you like, and they walk away
with something that's all packaged.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
that's fantastic.

and probably exactly what
small business owners want.

you know, I've been in the room with
large businesses and they love to joust

and debate and talk about concepts and
philosophies and small business owners.

Don't have any time for that.

they want the problem solution framework.

So I love the way you phrased that.

that you cut right from the problem to
the solution I think that's something

that all business managers can understand.

do you have any, besides your personal
example, do you have any other examples

of businesses that made that shift that
kind of got, they were stuck in the brand

part of it and shifted to the problem
solution framework and saw some success.

John: Look there, there's lots of them
because when you get into the convention

speaking game or seminar, speaking game,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: You, you know, are in front
of 50 or 150 business owners.

And when you come off stage, whether
it be a cup of coffee or a beer,

after your song and dance show a
whole bunch of people come up and

go, look, I, that's ridiculous buts.

Hallelujah.

I've seen the light.

You know and they will talk about, you
know, the advertising consultant who's

just taken quite a bit of money from
them and got them to sponsor the local

football teams or basketball teams.

And they did put their face on the
back of a, of a taxi and they did

throw money at sponsorship and all
of this stuff that's immeasurable.

And then I tell them well, how about we,
you know, do something that's really quick

in terms of, you know, getting results.

We have a program which we call
The contest leads machine.com

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: what we do is that we say to the
business, look, give away your product

or service as a prize on Facebook.

Or Instagram or whatever
platform you want.

And whoever enters that contest
obviously wants your product.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

John: you give one away,
but you've got 99.9%

of all the other entry,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: entrance that you can ring
up and say, look, you didn't want.

A classic example is a dentist a
couple of months ago said to us, look,

I wanna sell more Invisalign braces.

And we said, oh, okay, fair enough.

What are they worth?

And he said, right, well,
with five or $6,000.

And I get them for half of that,
and it's really easy money.

But we're after.

parents who've got children
with crooked teeth.

So that's what we do.

We tell Facebook, look, we just want
to go into the upmarket suburbs.

And we ran a contest win Invisalign
braces for your children.

He spent just $30 a day.

Got a thousand leads in the first week.

Okay.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

John: talking, we're not talking 12.

I mean, I know that if anybody's listening
to this, they won't see this, but the book

I'm holding up to the camera at the moment
is the book that you have to write when

you go out and do the seminar circuit.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: mine is the Avalanche Leads formula.

So we're all about leads, because
if you can't convert, then I think

you should probably just give up
your business and go and get a job

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Right.

John: No one

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

John: And so what happens is that, yeah,
this debt is, his head exploded of course

because of $30 a day over seven days.

So he spent 200 odd
dollars and got 991 leads.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

John: he gives one Invisalign
braces away, but he is got 990

other parents who are not only rich
because we targeted those zip codes,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

John: they've put their hand in
the air and said, take my money.

My child's got crooked teeth.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

that's brilliant.

John: and we've done that for industry,
after industry, after industry.

And yeah, it works every time.

Whether it's a lawn mowing company that
gives away, you know, one month's worth

of lawn mowing obviously whoever enters
that is not living in an apartment.

a dog food company just recently and
it was, you know, reasonable size

business doing about 18 million.

And we said, okay, well, we'll give
away six months with the dog food.

Once again for about $30 a day, they got
over a thousand leads In that first week.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

John: talking a week.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

John: and so we're
talking avalanche leads.

And then what happens is that if,
indeed, they can't get to ringing.

These people up and contacting them
because a lot of businesses don't

have a telemarketing division.

Then we put an AI robot
onto the outbound and

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

John: AI robot rings the people
and say, look, you didn't win

the six months with the dog food,
but obviously you've got a dog.

'cause if you don't, then
you're pretty weird, you know?

And we have a special deal at
the moment on a subscription

program for our dog food.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Fantastic.

Wow.

Yeah, I mean, I love it.

that seems like a very
strong, offering now.

I wanna jump to another topic.

You know, something you've referred
to in your seminars and others.

Um, incentive based marketing tell
us a little bit about what it is and

why is that particularly effective,
at getting attention, and you

know, what's the psychology here?

John: Whoever might be listening or
watching this, if there's anything

you take away from this interview,
then it would be consider incentives

because 97% of the world's businesses
have never run an incentive.

Too easy for them to drop their
pants as in drop their prices,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: mm-hmm.

Yeah.

John: And, you know, lose margin.

And of course when you do drop your.

Price too often, then of course it's
going to ultimately affect your brand.

There's nothing wrong with having
the midyear sale and the, you know,

the Boxing Day sale, but if you do
that too often, then of course you

know you're gonna be renowned for

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

John: And semi based marketing, really
the best way to explain how powerful

that is is McDonald's Happy Meal toy.

you know, I'm the father of six children.

They're all grown up now, and a few of
them with their own little children, but

when we had I gave McDonald's, I think 7.4

gazillion dollars
because of that damn toy.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

John: and you know, it's just one
of those things whereby McDonald's

have mastered the Happy Meal toy.

Incentive because, you know, they put a
toy in the box that appeals to children.

And children of course are
the decision makers when it

comes to what the parents buy.

And you know, I grew up in the
era where it was Flintstone's Toys

in the Kellogg's Ca Flakes box.

And you know, nothing's really changed.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: you know, Amazon
had their own prime Club.

So therefore, if you become a
member of the Prime Club, then you

get free shipping and free movies
and all sorts of other privileges.

The little coffee shop down the
road probably has a reward program.

When you get a coffee, you get a stamp
and you say 10 stamps on your little

loyalty card and you get a free coffee.

So if you are not doing it, then
you should think about an incentive.

A good example is we had a turf
farm as in selling grass, okay.

For your front yard and your backyard.

said to me, look, what could we do?

And I said, look, why don't you actually,
you know, give away cartons of beer.

So when a landscaper who can get the
grass and grass is like, you know,

really the, if you buy your turf,
farm turf from one farm, it's no d.

From the grass from the other farm.

So the only differential is price.

So I said, well, why don't you take
price away from it and say to all

the landscapers, which is his target
audience, you, buy your grass from us

and we'll give you a free carton of,
beer for every homes worth of grass.

He had two miles worth of
grass go within five days.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

John: He rang me up and said,
look, we've got a problem.

He said that we've got no more grass
because he had about, you know, 1.8

miles worth of grass that
he had planted on the

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

John: And when we sent out the
the direct mail campaign, because

landscapers are somewhat technophobe.

they, you know, you can
contact them by email maybe.

But we sent out a letter to all
of them with a brochure and said,

look, for every home's worth of
grass, you get a carton, a beer.

it was so ridiculously successful that
a guy who was the biggest pain of the

backside to him for the six months
earlier who would always say, oh, you are

charging $5, you know, per square yard.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: I can get it for
$4 80 down the road.

He rang up, didn't ask about the price.

He just said, I need 18
homes worth of grass.

I don't care when the grass gets
here, but I need the beer by Friday.

I've got a party.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Wow, that's amazing.

And it's like, you know, it is a
business you don't think about,

you know, but you, obviously like
that's, uh, you know, a service and

a product that people really need.

that is, that's pretty unique.

John: it's gotta be good
message to market match.

You know, like I'm a baby boomer,
so if I walked into a men's wear

store and bought a sports jacket and

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: me a skateboard, then he's nuts
because I'm not gonna use a skateboard.

It won't turn me off.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

John: But if you gave me a movie
voucher or a dining voucher, then

that would be a different story.

So you've gotta make sure
that whatever your incentive

is, that it's a good message

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: And you are leading, me into,
of course, me boasting that the,

probably the most successful, incentive
based marketing campaign that I've

ever been involved in over the.

3000 years that I've been doing.

This is one for an Australian, bank
that was a building society, but

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

John: thing.

And it was we decided to take
their eyes off the interest rate.

and I was a consultant to this bank
and they said, what should we do?

And I said, look, the 250th biggest
business in Australia, but you're not

as big as the Wells Fargo or the Bank
of Americas, that you're just not.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: therefore you
are a challenger brand.

And they said, well, what does that mean?

I said, well, if you're
not the 40 ton gorilla.

If you're not the Coca-Cola
of your business, you need

to challenge whoever is.

And they said, well, what do we do?

I said, will you stop advertising
on home loan interest rates?

Because if you are 7%,
they're gonna be 6.8%

within 5 million.

You're never gonna win that.

It'd be like a little corner
store trying to take on Costco.

It's not

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Right?

John: Right.

that's what we did.

We I was doing some TV commercials for
a travel discount company at the time.

I introduced them and what we did is
that we got rid of the 1% honeymoon rate.

Because if you're familiar with
home loans, then the first year

most banks will give you a 1% break

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

John: back up again.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: so we used that and gave
that to the travel company.

So therefore it was cost neutral.

And we came on TV and social
media and we said, get a home

loan and get a free vacation.

they took an extra 15 billion, not
million, billion dollars worth of home

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

John: the first couple of years.

And this idiot who you're talking to,
that's me, did not do a percentage deal.

I took a consultancy fee,
so I am a complete moron.

And then about three years into the
promotion we got, or I got Jerry

Seinfeld to do the advertising.

So I'm showing off about that for
about the last 10 years, of course,

but I think so would, anyway so I'd go

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: and forth to New York and
Jerry would stand outside a mockup of

this particular bank and do standup.

And basically he would say
to everybody, look, you know.

Swap your home loan from the Bank
of America or from, you know,

Wells Fargo across to this one,
and you would get a free vacation

and it just went to another level.

So not only was it successful for
the first three years, when we got

Jerry involved in it thereafter,
it just went through the roof.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's amazing.

Yeah.

Jerry, that must've been fun.

Did you have direct contact with him?

John: Yeah,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

John: No, I have to go backwards
and forwards quite a bit.

He's a bit of a
perfectionist and that's fair

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yes.

John: He's a, you know, he's a
big two star and yeah, and look,

he's just a down to earth guy.

He was lovely, and I asked him a number
of times, why did you say yes to this?

Because he got more money than God.

and he just said, look you, you know,
asked me to take the Mickey out of.

And he said, no, I've had a career
of taking the Mickey Outta things,

so I thought it'd be good fun.

Yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Wow.

No, this is super interesting.

So Jay, you know, we covered a lot.

I guess just in kind of as a takeaway,
what would you say are some of the

simplest, like, you know, every business
is different, of course, different

services, different products, different
locations, different characteristics,

but what would you say are some simple
things that a small business could

do to generate wow factor, today?

If that was just like one takeaway
they had, what would you suggest?

John: I can give you And the

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay, great.

John: can roll

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Bonus.

John: here though, you know, read
is because obviously if you're doing

a few of these podcasts you get
that sort of question quite often

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: of the interview.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: I think you know,
everybody no matter what.

Business you're in is looking for the odd
quick win because it's fine to, you know,

go to your accountant and the accountant
says, look, slow and steady wins the race.

And you know, what you can do is build
up your brand and eventually they'll

come and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

you know, a lot of well, I, I'm sure
I speak for 95% of us, and that is,

is that look, you know, can you gimme
something that, I know you can't

guarantee it, but it's almost guaranteed.

So I'll give you two ideas.

Number one.

Out of all of the incentives that
I've used throughout the year, the

one that blew me away, that is the
most powerful incentive on the planet,

is definitely the free vacation.

No, no question about that.

And the reason for that is, is
that it appeals to a 25-year-old

or an 85-year-old, and it
appeals to men and women.

And what happened as a
result of the Seinfeld thing?

You know you can't keep that a secret.

About six months before COVID, I
got a call from a travel company.

And they said, listen, we've
got access to one sold.

Rooms in Las Vegas and New
York and Orlando and San Diego,

and you name it, right around
America, right around the world.

but we're not a marketing company and
these hotels are happy to give up their

rooms in the hope that whoever stays there
we'll spend money on food and beverage.

And I said, go on.

And they said, well, you know, you look
like you've got half a clue when it

comes to marketing senior Seinfeld staff.

Would you like to join forces
and pay us a royalty fee?

And you actually market this to
small to medium sized businesses as.

The way that they can
combat the 40 ton gorilla.

said, yeah, sure.

And so that's what we did
six months out from COVID.

We launched this and
it, it is rocket fuel.

Basically we gave businesses a voucher.

And I know that if people are listening,
they're not looking at this, but if you're

watching this on a video, you'll see I'm
holding up a voucher that's aquar size

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

John: Basically they use this as a
Happy Meal toy to attract customers.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

John: say, we give them.

a thousand dollars vacation for
$50 which is just ridiculous.

But we can do that because
keep in mind, the inventory

of the hotel rooms comes free.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: hotels are happy to
give us the rooms for free.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

John: whatever we market them for
obviously is our margin that we've gotta

pay for our overheads and everything else.

But the hotel is hoping whoever comes
and stays in that Vegas or Orlando

or New York Hotel for three nights.

probably spend money on food and beverage.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

John: So this is outside
of skill vacation period.

Obviously they don't have
any empty rooms then.

So this is all based on unsold rooms.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Right.

John: It is rocket fuel.

And no surprise to me because obviously
when we had the Feld Bank campaign,

that's what this was all about.

You know, swap your home loan
from the Bank of America and

we'll give you a free vacation.

You know, we've been.

Providing this as a sales stimulus
to businesses for, you know, we had

to sit on our hands for obviously a
couple of years when COVID came along.

But basically no matter what business
you're in, whether it's, you know,

lawn mowing, or whether it happens to
be a furniture business, or it happens

to be solar, you simply say, look,
buy my product or service and we'll

give you a free three night vacation
throughout America at all the hotspots.

And that goes nuts.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: that's so cool.

John: Yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Well,

John: the way, if anyone wants
to have a look at it and you

know, if you don't mind me

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: please, yeah.

John: they will get a special
deal when they go to this page.

They'll see it's $97 a voucher,
but we give it to people

from podcast for half that,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh, great.

John: just go to vacations incentive.com,

vacations with a plural.

So that's vacations incentive.com.

And the other one that I would
just round off with, I know

you're running outta time, so the
other one would be the contest.

Leads machine.com.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

John: go to contest leed machine.com,

you'll see how that works whereby
you actually give away your

product or service as the prize.

And of course, whoever enters that
is just glow in the dark that they're

interested in your product or service.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Fantastic.

So, yeah.

You know, I think you've, answered
the next question I was going to

ask, you know, where can PE users,
uh, or listeners find you if they

are interested in working with you?

Are any other places?

Like are you regularly featured on

John: Normally wanted posters
inside police stations.

I'm on the wanted poster there.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Alright.

John: for being the most annoying
marketing guy in the world.

Yeah.

Look, if anyone wants to just grab
ideas for free, I mean, you don't

have to give me anything for it.

We have a case study page on our website
that if you go on there, you could be

there for, you know, many, many hours.

So if you just go to our website,
which is the institute of wow.com.

And if you go up to the
menu bar you'll see me.

Showing off about Seinfeld
and all sorts of stuff on the,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

John: So you, you'll just
have to put up with that.

But if you go to the menu bar at the
top, it says Case, there's a case studies

page, and if you go to that case studies
page, make yourself a cup of coffee

or grab a beer or wine because you
could be there for a couple of hours.

It just goes on and on and on I
believe that you can normally predict.

future if you have a look at their past.

And so therefore, if you are looking
for a good landscaper, have a look

at what they've done in the past.

If you're looking for a good
kitchen renovator, have a look

at what they've done in the past.

And so living by that philosophy that I
made sure that I never threw anything out.

All the case studies that we've had
over the thousand years I've been

doing this, we digitized all of them.

The ones that didn't work.

Didn't make the website.

but all the ones that worked, it
basically goes on and on and on.

So grab yourself a beer or coffee
and you can just swipe any of

those ideas with my blessing.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Fantastic.

Well, thank you so much, John, and this
has been a really fun conversation.

no sarcasm, from my side.

I really enjoyed this.

this was great, and so please reach
out at the Institute of Wow or the

other links that you mentioned.

I will include those in the show notes.

And, I really enjoyed getting to know
you and hopefully this will generate

some additional wow for a lot of people.

So thanks so much.

John: Reid, I thought what you're
gonna do is round up then and say,

use one of my gags, and then say,
look John, I'd like to say that this

has been one of our best interviews.

And then of course I go, well, thank you.

And they're gonna know.

I'd like to say that I can't,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah, exactly.

I would never do that to you,

John: it's funny, I
know you gotta wind up.

But whenever I'm doing TV commercials
for any of these people or these days,

of course it's Facebook commercials, if
we're using the owner of the business

to actually represent the business
and do the video at the end of it.

And most of them are hopeless.

Most of 'em are just not used to
being in front of a camera of course.

So, you know, it is sort of like, take 25,
take 26, And at the end of it, eventually

when we get a good take, I'll say to them,
look, I'd like to say that that was the.

Best performance I've ever seen,
and they think I'm serious.

And they go, oh, thank you very much jd.

And I go, no, no, I'd like to say that.

I can't.

You are awful.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: I like to say,
but that was just the most recent take.

Okay.

Well, well it's been a pleasure.

Thanks so much.

Shitty.

John: All the best.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: We'll see it.

Speaker 2: Want to stay ahead of what's
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Head over to Market surge.io

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That's market surge.io

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