Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Inside
Marketing with market Surge, we're

diving deep into the psychology of
peak performance with none other than

Darren Fields of apex of advisory.

A former athlete turned
elite performance strategist,

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: We
just need to go to the state.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: and

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: We
just need to go to the state.

We just need to go to the state.

Now.

the next class.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: and execution.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
It's going to be.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
approach, Darren helps his clients

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: It's

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: system, breaking
through self-imposed limits, silencing

internal chaos, and building the habits
that create unstoppable momentum.

Whether you're running a growing
business, leading a team, or just

trying to get out of your own damn
way, this episode is going to hit hard.

We're talking mindset mastery,
identity transformation, and the

exact strategies Darren uses to
help people go from stuck to savage.

Buckle up.

Darren.

So glad to have you.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
I'm happy to be here.

I'm looking forward to the show.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Yeah, my pleasure.

So off, um, you talk a lot about
rewiring your internal operating system.

What would you say that really means
and how did you discover that this

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: Well,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: to performance?

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: you know,
it really, this book is really,

you know, it's only been out,
I think, about two months now.

So it was born in
the AI era, right?

So this is, this is the type of
book that, as others have said, is

much needed today in the AI era.

And one of the things that we,
we really do in the book is

we bring the conscious, awareness
of what actually is involved in

being persuasive in the world.

So AI has brought so much
knowledge and so much, you

know, basically empowerment to
customers that you kind of got

to rework the way you do things.

And one of the things that I teach
is about the asymmetry of knowledge.

50s, 60s, 70s, the sales people
had all the knowledge on how a

Ferrari worked or how a solar
panel worked or what have you.

And you've said, okay, I
want to know about that.

I got to go talk to a sales guy.

That's basically, you were
the keeper of the knowledge.

Well, now, obviously, as search,
as the cloud came and the

internet came and then search
engines came, and now that AI

is here, people are very much.

more in power on the knowledge
side than ever before.

So I don't really need sales
people anymore like I used to.

So there's the rewire.

The rewire now is how
do you build trust?

Excuse me, how do you build trust?

And how do you do it quickly?

Because you've got a lot
of social media out there.

You've got tons of people that
wanted to find somebody to do

what they've already learned about
online or through their family or

through their friends and they have
a lot of knowledge and they want

to find somebody to actually do it
and do it right, not necessarily

teach them and then talk them
into something they don't need.

So that's the rewire.

You have to kind of look at
it through a different lens.

These

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Okay.

That's helpful.

So what, what are some of the common.

Uh, or, um, where, where are a lot of
these entrepreneurs, say executives and

athletes, where are they getting stuck?

Uh, what are these blocks
that they typically face?

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
days, um, you know, it's funny.

I just had a conversation with
a friend of mine over in Israel.

Um, and we were talking about
automation versus not automation

because AI is all about automation.

It's really is a machine.

Um, our, our first levels of
automation is machine learning.

Um, there's a place to use it and
there's a place not to use it.

And one of the biggest things
we've got to pull out right

now, one of the biggest things
that the public is most concerned

about in regards to AI is, is
misinformation and deep fakes.

They're very, very worried about it.

So now that that's psychiatry,
psychology and psychometrics is

going to trickle down to the
home services folks to, to the,

to the agencies of the world,
you know, tax agencies, all these

people do persuade and sell.

They may not want to call it that.

But that's what they do with all
of you roofers out there that

are following up a hailstorm and
you want to go do a bunch of

inspections, I gotta tell you,
you're not the only one going out

and you are selling and you're
being persuasive why they should

pick you over the other ones.

And you, you talk
about what you do.

But when we talk about automation.

We talk about people.

We talk about not trusting
AI and not trusting ads

and all of these things.

It really starts to come
down to building trust.

How do you build trust
fast in today's marketplace?

Um, how do you quickly go?

And what we, what we teach is a
thing called RevGen90, which is in

90 minutes or less, we show people
how to quickly pick up where that

Is that in their journey, which
is probably at the point you think

would think they would be, which
is how do I find somebody to do

everything I learned about on AI
because AI is able to, if you say,

I am trying to, um, I want to,
I want to get involved in solar.

I want to pay back to the grid.

I want to lower my bill, whatever
the motivation is to start doing

the research as a buyer sitting in
their home, as soon as they spend

two, three, four, I'm from Long
Beach and I'm currently living in

a pretty Jehovah's Word -deserved
apartment paycheck at like an old

house in a pretty big There's a new
office down the street I'm not sure.

It's not weeks anymore.

Um, as long as, as long as they
are doing it in AI, it's going

to come back with, would you
like a list of who to shop for?

Would you like a list
for who to talk to?

Or do you like a list for,
and they have all that.

So before, you know, the, the roofer
or the HVAC person even shows up,

this person already knows a lot.

And they've already been
coached on the basics.

Now it's who do I trust?

And now it's a trust game.

So if you're going to be a
persuader and a revenue generator in

today's world, you've got to learn
how to be your authentic self, and

you've got to know where to use the
automation, and where the automation

is hurting your authentic self.

So for example, a list, right?

Getting automation around
your list for your funnel.

Absolutely.

Use AI and it'll go
deep into the balance.

It's a great research tool.

You'll probably have more
names on that list than

you've ever heard before.

But now you gotta flip it.

Now that you gotta get back human,
you gotta come back to human now.

Don't start sending a
bunch of, of basic emails.

If you can't personalize
that, or you, you and your

marketers can't personalize
that, you guys probably should.

How do you make this more realistic?

Maybe even keep it short and sweet,
like, Hello bills saw online or,

you know, be, be transparent, saw
online or saw some indications

on the, on the internet that you
might be looking for solar panels.

If you are, give me a call and
what you'll find is that that

genuine approach and that genuine
vibe and have multiple different

versions of that, you'll start to
get some really interesting results

out of your, your marketing, right?

And you'll start to
get some elements there.

But really, what's going to happen
then is, is at that point, they're

going to do a street cred check.

Are you there?

Are you in business?

How long have you been in business?

The usual stuff.

And now they're going to invite
you out, get face to face,

start doing face to face.

If I'm seeing a lot of
people, you asked me, what

are people running into?

They kind of got the COVID
hangover where they're relying

too much on video calls.

They're relying too much on,
um, you know, other, uh, phone

calls, robo callers, doing a lot.

I'm sorry, guys.

You're gonna have to now
go back to the streets.

You gotta go a little old school.

Once your marketer gets
you that appointment, you

gotta step in as the human.

Stop the automation, get in the
truck, drive out and start meeting

them from face to face and
start learning how to do this.

And so in Apex 8, we
talk about discovery.

We talk about prototype, but
for, for, for HVAC and home

services, it's going to be mini
demos, mini proof of concepts,

mini mock -ups, where you paint
the customer into the picture

of doing business with you.

So, you know, in step two of
Apex 8, get good at mocking

it up, painting them into the
picture, and play with it.

Start learning how to do this.

And then validate, all
in the first visit.

All in the first visit.

So while you're in the front
door, begin with, So why

did you call us out today?

You got a million choices.

Thank you for choosing us.

Why did you call us out?

I'm just curious.

What's the one big problem
you're hoping to solve here?

What's the big thing?

I mean, I take it that you probably
did a lot of research on the web.

Again, you're being
your authentic self.

You're also bringing in truth.

They're going to say, yeah, I am.

You're okay with that?

They say.

And I go, yeah, of course.

I'm glad you did.

What, what did you learn?

What did you figure out?

I learned this.

I learned this.

I learned this.

I learned this.

Okay, good.

And how many folks
you got coming out?

I got four more coming out.

You see right there, you're
going to have to have a

little bit of bravery now.

Because you don't have
the knowledge anymore.

They're not going to come in.

You got to ask the hard questions.

Now they used to have to
ask the hard questions.

Now you got to ask
the hard questions.

How many people you got coming out?

I don't want to do that.

What if they have guys stop?

Trust me.

Read will tell you right now.

They have been told by AI
or their family members.

Make sure you get three quotes.

Really?

You don't think they are?

And hey, guess what?

If you ask the question and they
say, Nope, I didn't choose anybody.

You had just validated that
you're their number one choice.

Guys, ask the tough questions
and then validate it.

Is it, am I, did, did
my mock -up look good?

How was that?

What did you think?

What did you think?

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
you're actually not closing.

Don't try and close.

Just try and get
a validation of it.

And you will have the best
living room times of your days

because in 90 minutes, you
should be able to do this.

And in 90 minutes, you'll know
whether you got a deal or not,

so to speak, or whether or not
you got up customer for life.

Thank

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that's great.

Now, just to pivot slightly, I, I don't
wanna sell you short because you have

a really interesting background, very
unique and, um, love to hear about.

You know, you, your background as
an athlete and, and how you've made

that transition to, uh, you know,
being a, a coach, an advisor, a,

a fractional, uh, revenue officer.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: you

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: you know,
help lead to where you are today?

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
for that question.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: Yeah,
I mean, I'm again, motorsports

athlete, two wheels, four wheels,
circle track, straight line, road

course, but also wrestled in high
school, big extreme sports guy, etc.

So.

I like to say that I traded some
of my deeper or more advanced

education for education at the track.

I learned a lot about business being
in the business of racing, right?

And, um, got, got some college
under our belt, but we kind of

melded those two things together.

And that, if you look at my career,
it is those two things together.

So how it came to be or how
it benefits me is that, um, In

the motorsports world, we are
very pro -risk, we are very bold.

You, you just have to be, right?

You can die at any time, at
any corner, or at any moment.

Um, and you learn about team,
and you learn about trust, and

you learn about a lot of things.

So at a very young age, I
was constantly living in the

world of continuous improvement.

How do you get faster?

Race after race, weekend after
weekend, how do you shave a tenth

or three hundredths of a second
off of your lap times to get

to the front of the pack, right?

He who goes fast, wins.

But there's a bunch behind that.

So it's funny that motorsports
and business look a lot alike.

It's just one is very pro -risk and

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
is very risk -averse.

And so what I brought to the
business world, which is risk

-averse, we don't want to lose
money, we don't want to go out

of business, we don't want to be
homeless, whatever it is that runs

through your mind, the psychology
there is a little different.

So when I hit the, hit the,
hit the, the business world,

I said, well, there's got to
be a better way to do this.

There's got to be a
faster way to do this.

It's got to be a
better way to do this.

It's got to be a
faster way to do this.

I would drive my bosses nuts.

I would drive them crazy.

Um, we've got lots of stories over
the decades, but, uh, yeah, there

are many times when I had to say,
I want my own marketing person.

I want my own salespeople.

I want my own this.

I want my own that.

I'm net new, bop, bop, bop.

That's the boldness.

You have to be bold
to be a net new.

So, You know, really, when we
take a look at what it takes

to win a race and to stay on
top of your game, and what it

takes to do it in business, they
are very, very, very similar.

I

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's, yeah.

That, that's helpful to know, you know,
when you, um, made that transition,

did you, did you find that, um.

Uh, did, did you find that the same,
the competition level was the, the same,

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: love

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: in, you
know, revenue, uh, operations.

You know what, what, what, what are
some of the differences in culture?

I, I'd say between the two.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
that question.

No one's ever asked me that.

From a competitive standpoint,
the business world is much

more competitive because when
I show up at the track, I

know all my competitors, one
to one degree or another.

On a scale of one to
10, I know them from at

least three to 10, right?

I know them.

In business, I don't see them.

You know, I'm here in Las Vegas.

Um, you know, I know they're
out there, But I don't see them.

I do know that I did borrow
something from Eddie Lawson,

who was, I believe, two -time
grand world champion and multi

-champion in different classes.

Eddie Lawson, when he would
show up at the track, he

would say, I know there's
somebody here that can beat me.

Now, it's interesting about that
because he, what he was saying was,

is I, I, I know my competitors
like he knew me, but one of those

threes could jump to a 10, right?

Or maybe someone shows
up out of nowhere.

So if you, if you, if any of
you know or want to look up

the story of Kevin Schwantz,
I was at Willow Springs the

day that Kevin showed up.

And it was interesting because
nobody knew who Kevin was.

A couple people did.

They brought him to,
uh, Willow Springs.

They asked Yoshimura Racing
Team to look at him.

He jumped on the bike.

Three, four laps later,
he was within two, three

-tenths of the track record.

So, we went from zero to a
thousand miles an hour, and he

was signed literally that day,
and he went on to be one -time

world champion, but won many races.

The reason why I say that is
the The beauty of being pro -risk

in the business world is, yes,
you have a lot of competition.

But, if you're willing to
take some risks and be

bold, you will be rewarded.

Meaning, if you're willing to
confront whatever your fears are

as a business person, and, you
know, buy a book, you don't have

to buy mine, just buy a book,
and, and go get in a class and

start getting into the art of
persuasion in 2025, you'll start

to head your competition off.

It won't necessarily be in the
product always, you'll start

to head your competition off.

It could be, it could be table
stakes, but in racing, there's

a lot of classes I've raced
in where we all had the exact

same motor, had the exact same
frame, the exact same everything.

It's called spec racing.

One guy's 14 minutes out front
of the guy that's in last place.

I mean, it's crazy, right?

So as a business person, just
buckle in, work with your team,

work with your marketers, work
with, you know, get your org

board out and start going.

How do I improve everything to do
one thing is to persuade the public

to choose me over my competition.

Thank

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

So, you know, as a, you know, from
your approach and your, uh, philosophy,

um, I think this is really relevant
to a lot of people in, in my audience.

I have people that are really
good at their craft, you know,

whether it's a photographer
or, uh, maybe they've, they've.

Master to trade.

Um, but they, they live
in a state of overwhelm.

They've come to me
because they want to grow.

But

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: you.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: struggling
with operating a business and the

burden of sales and marketing,
and they are just overwhelmed.

What, what would you, would you advise
somebody in that position, uh, you know,

and how do avoid just hustling and, uh,
you know, never being free of, of work.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: Yeah, and
this, this happens a lot in what I

will call the creative sphere, right?

And the creative spectrum.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: Um, You
know, it's, it's, it's interesting

when you look at finance and fintech
and, and all those things, there's

a lot of structure to their world.

For a photographer,
they're a creative.

Even for a contractor,
they're a creative.

I could give a hammer and a
chisel and a tool belt to two

contractors, put them in the two
houses on the same street in the

same neighborhood here in Las Vegas.

And we, you and I could come back
three months later and we'd just go,

Oh, and the other ones, Oh, right.

They're, they're very creative people.

They create something
that wasn't there before.

So for any of those creatives,
and that's a broad list,

it does get hard in the
sales and marketing world.

Um, they want to create the
answer and as opposed to solve it.

So what I would say, um, to the,
to a photographer in specific, I

would say, work with, take a look
at your org board and say who's

going to help you get the signature.

The difference between marketing
and sales is the signature, right?

That's my nickname, the signature
guy, but marketing is right there.

Obviously, marketing brings them,
you know, helps you, like you

say, find all your competitors, but
marketing also helps you find the

people before the other guys do.

It's a wonderful, it's
a much needed world.

But then you got to
close them, everybody.

And so for the photographer is
like, well, I'm not a salesperson.

I'm not this, I'm going to
create enough of a solution

that they'll just go with me.

My advice to you is possibly
find somebody to help you with

getting the signature or B, take
a little bit of time and put some

conscious competence and recognize
that there's another side of you,

which believes in what you do.

And you say, all right, I'm
going to take a look at this

and just say, maybe if I just
follow the steps of apex eight.

Maybe I don't have
to be all salesy.

Maybe I don't.

Because I will say this to
those creative types out there.

I did kind of write this for you.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: I
wrote this for technical people.

I wrote this for innovators.

And so whether you're designing
a whole website for somebody

or you're designing a photo
shoot for somebody, you're still

a creative or an innovator.

And one thing that I will
point out in my book, there's

eight steps, is that the
sixth step is called finalize.

It is not called closing.

I do not have really anything
that overcomes objections because

that's a different flow, that's a
different map, that's a different

play, that's a different plan.

The only reason why you
would have to overcome an

objection is if they had one.

So Apex 8 is designed to
remove as much of that as

possible and deal with finalize.

Now psychologically, when people
don't want to finalize, if you've

done Apex 8, The right way.

Execute it and master
it and play with it.

It takes a few months, I'm not
gonna lie, but once you get good

at it, they'll start asking you,
well how much does this cost?

I know you don't work for free,
what is, what is this gonna run me?

They will doing that
gentlemen, ladies and

gentlemen, almost that validate.

Yeah.

I really, when you say things
like, did that, did that, did

that hit the mark for you
when you hit the mark, they're

going to immediately go, yeah.

So how do we get started?

You're like, oh, okay, well,
let's just go with it.

He actually didn't close guys.

You finalized.

And when you finalize, then
you're going to run into what

you'll find with apex eight.

As you get into that section,
you're going to go, oh my

goodness, they're not going for it.

They're not doing what Darren said.

Go back to validate and go.

Okay.

So what's what has you concerned?

What's your what's your worry?

Well, I did talk to somebody
else and they did this and they

told me that and i'm confused
Guys, you're not overcoming

an objection at this point.

You're really not You're going
to bring the truth back from the

previous five steps and go, well,
now remember we talked about this

in my prototyping or my mockup.

Remember when we talked
about this was more important

than that in the validation.

Remember when I actually showed
you some other customers that are

actually using it in my demo step.

Oh, I do.

Okay, you're right.

Let's go.

You don't even have to
ask if you do it right.

Psychologically, you'll walk them
right down the road that AI put

them on when they first started.

So, for the photographers and
the creatives, if you, if you,

and the innovators, if you guys
kind of get into those first

few steps, You will not be a
salesperson, you will be a persuader.

And that's a different
hat for you guys.

So either, hey, get
somebody to help you do it.

And maybe you hire a, a sales crew.

And if you want to
do that, do that.

Um, I know of a photographer
that hired my wife at one time.

And she, she was a salesperson.

And she would call every
day for four hours.

And she had this, this
photographer, Monty Noose.

He was booked.

For

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: out.

So, you know, if you, if you
can't do that part or you don't

want anything to do with that,
or you feel it's going to tarnish

your brand, bring in a signature
person and let's see what happens.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: I love it.

Well, Darren, there's a lot of
wisdom here and I'm sure that

you have an endless supply.

I'm, uh, be really interested
in, in learning more.

Where would people go if they would like
to either work with you, read your book,

um, you know, benefit from, from these
great prac great practices you teach?

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
Yeah, absolutely.

And thank you.

And I, you know, Apex8book .com,

Apex8book .com.

That's where you can go
to learn about the book.

You can learn some things on
there about the methodology.

And then yes, if you want to
order the book from there, please,

you know, go ahead, feel free.

You can do it in all different
forms, but really for those

that really want to kind of
get some training or, or,

Then there's apex8advisory .com.

So if you go to apex8advisory .com

and you know, even, even I
would say this to you and to

your listeners and for you guys,
because it is a good show.

I really love where
you guys are at.

You know, if you're watching this,
if you want to email me or you

want to get a hold of Reed, I'll
get you guys a free ebook copy.

I'll get it to you so that
you have it for tuning in for

investing and learning about it.

I'd be happy to send it to you.

Just get ahold of me.

I guess we'll put it in
the show notes, right?

Read, but Darren at Darren
at Darren fields .com.

But, but, but mentioned
the show, right?

Mentioned market surge.

So I know I don't
usually give this away.

So for everybody listening.

Just email me, mention the show,
mention Reed, and then I'll be

happy to shoot you guys on email.

You know, give me your email,
give me a phone number.

I'll shoot you guys what
you need for an ebook.

We'll get you guys going.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Thanks so much, Darren.

Darren, that's a really generous, gift
for our listeners, and I would encourage

everybody to reach out to Darren and,
and, um, you know, and just, just so

you know, it's Darren with one RI, uh, I

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: Thank you.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: make sure that.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: thank you.

It happens a lot.

Yeah, two hours.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Well, I,

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory: Thank

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: get
people think that my name is

spelled five different ways.

You know, I think it'd be simple,
but, so I, I totally empathize.

Uh, well, Darren, thank you so much
for joining our podcast today and

for the lessons that you've shared
and, uh, and this wonderful gift.

Daren Fields, Apex Advisory:
you very much for having me.

I always love, I always
love exploring these topics.

So thank you.

Speaker 2: Want to stay ahead of what's
actually working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
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That's market surge.io

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