Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Reed: Welcome to Inside Marketing
with Market Surge, the podcast I am

joined by the talented Liz Hansen,
owner of Chicago Boudoir Photography.

Liz, in addition to being a skilled
photographer, is an expert marketer.

Uh, we, you may notice
we share a last name.

We are related, uh, and married.

Uh.

Uh, you know, maybe I should
phrase that as we are married.

Um, good to, good to
get that out of the way.

Um, but let's start with a, a
little bit of an intro to you, Liz.

Uh, for those of you that don't know who
you are, could you give us a 62nd, uh,

story of how Chicago boudoir came to life?

Liz: Yeah.

Well first off, thanks for having me here.

It's great to chat.

Um, I've been a photographer
for a long time, but I got into

boudoir about 10 years ago.

I did a boudoir photo shoot for myself.

And made an album and gave it to my
husband, and it went over really well,

and I started to understand the power and
the confidence building experience that a

boudoir photo shoot could have for women.

So I decided to open my own
boudoir photography boutique.

That's all I do now is just boudoir.

I specialize in boudoir.

I don't do weddings.

I don't do bar mitzvahs
or any of that anymore.

And by the way, boudoir, if you haven't
heard of it, uh, boudoir is just a fancy

French word that means a woman's bedroom.

But a boudoir photo shoot is a sensual
photo shoot experience that allows

women to celebrate their bodies
and their journeys and their lives.

And as a boudoir photographer, my
goal is to help women feel empowered,

confident, joyful, and to go home with
a memory, um, you know, with an album,

to remember the experience either
for themselves or to give us a gift.

Reed: Thank you.

Um, of the distinctive things about
your business is that you run a large

Facebook community called the VIP
Group for Empowered Women of Chicago.

So tell us a little bit about that group.

What goes on, and, um, how does
that relate to a marketing strategy?

You.

Liz: Yeah, so I am a boudoir photographer.

The, the primary product that I sell
is boudoir photos, boudoir albums.

I have women who come into the studio and
that's what they want to purchase from

me, but more than just that, my business.

Is bigger than that.

My mission bi, my, the mission of my
business is bigger than just boudoir.

My mission is to help women feel
empowered in all areas of their lives.

So one of the things that I do, in
addition to taking boudoir photos and

selling boudoir photos and boudoir
albums is to, um, facilitate and, uh.

Create and facilitate this
online community, the VIP group

for Empowered Women of Chicago.

So I started this, um, Facebook
group about seven years ago.

We have about 10,000 local women in
the Chicago area who are part of the

group, and it is just a fabulous place.

I love to hang out there.

I love to meet people.

Um, we have a daily conversation
starter, so it's a place where I

can achieve my mission of helping
women feel connected and empowered.

Then also go on and talk about why
boudoir is great, why they might

wanna book a shoot, and why they
might wanna become a client of mine.

So it fills multiple roles in my business
where, uh, it allows me to achieve

that mission, that broader mission
that I have in my business to not just

sell something, but to actually affect
people's lives and to make a difference

in my community, and then also bring
people in the door for boudoir photos.

Reed: So a lot of Facebook groups,
they, they grow and, uh, but they,

they then fizzle at some point.

What have you done to keep
yours growing and to make yours

stick and keep people engaged?

I.

Liz: It is so true.

I mean, you're probably in some Facebook
groups that were fun for a while and

then they're not fun anymore, or you
wish they would be more active or.

Um, you know, you wish Facebook would
do things differently and, you know,

listen, when you, when you create a
VIP Facebook group, you are at the

mercy of Facebook and what it shows
and its rules and things like that.

So, as a boudoir photographer, for
example, I have to be really careful with

what I post in the Facebook group so that
I don't get my hand slapped by Facebook

police for being too naughty and naked.

Right.

Um.

But the key to, and, and you know, when I
started my Facebook group, I had that same

concern that you raised that like, I could
put a lot of time and effort into this and

then it just wouldn't really go anywhere.

And I think that always is a
risk when you start a marketing.

Um, I.

When you start a marketing effort
that like you might put a lot of

effort into it and not get some ROI,
but I was willing to keep at it with

this group because I saw early on
the potential that this group had.

So there's a couple things that
we do in this group to make it

consistently a fun place to be.

Fun place to be, a place that
women want to join, a place that

women wanna stay, and a place
that women wanna connect, right?

So a couple of those things are this.

Number one, we post something
every single day in the group.

Um, I never, I.

Have missed a day in
seven years of doing this.

Um, we post content every day,
typically more than once a day.

It's consistent and people
know what to expect.

Now, do I wake up every single morning
and dream of something to post?

No.

Fortunately, Facebook
has a scheduler, right?

So I can get ahead of it.

That means I don't have to get
out of bed early every morning.

Or dream up something every morning.

I, I do it in batches, right?

So that I have a lot
of content ready to go.

But number one, consistency.

So keep posting.

I'd never let the group just go
for a few weeks without posting.

You know, I don't let it die like that.

Number two, I personally stay
really involved with the group.

I go in the group every single day.

I comment, I like, I interact,
I see how things are going.

I make sure there aren't, you
know, uh, discussion questions that

are devolving into like a fight.

Um, I, uh, a.

I admit new members, I do all
the things that mean that I am

actually part of this group.

So when someone comes into my studio
and they've been a part of the group,

they feel like maybe they kind of know
me because I personally am in the group.

So I don't just let the group go by
itself without having someone look at it.

I don't abandon it.

I don't.

You know, uh, I personally
am in there communicating.

I'm part of it.

So I think those are the two most
important things that have really made

that group a success for me is consistency
and showing up as myself authentically.

I'm really me in the group.

Like I use my real Facebook profile.

I talk about things I really care about.

I respond to people's comments in a
way that I would wanna be responded to.

So those two things have made
it a really a successful piece

of my marketing strategy.

Reed: Well, and, and you're
a very lovable person.

I, I, I can attest to that.

So,

Liz: Oh well.

Reed: um, tell, tell us a little bit about
the kinds of posts that seem to generate

the most engagement in your group.

Um, you know, is, is it a, the content
of the post or is it, um, a topic that,

that you find particularly interesting?

Liz: So one of the things you do
have to learn if you're gonna run

some marketing efforts on Facebook
is what Facebook itself values.

So if you post something that you think is
really great, but Facebook doesn't think

it's really great, it won't show it to.

A lot of people, right?

You're at the mercy of the
Facebook algorithm and what the

Facebook algorithm is going to
push into group members' feeds.

So it is very possible for you to be
in a group and never see group posts.

It is very possible for you to create
a group and post a lot and have none

of your group members see it, right?

So.

The first thing you need to
understand is what Facebook values.

Now, I wish I could sit down with
Mark Zuckerberg and have them open the

book and tell me exactly what it is
that they push and they don't push.

I don't know.

I don't know that anybody knows that.

I think that's a closely guarded
algorithm secret that Mark Zuckerberg

keeps under his pillow, right?

But there are a few things that
I have figured out over the years

that work better than others.

The number one thing is.

If you have a post with a lot of
comments, more people are gonna see

it than if you have no comments.

Okay?

Or just one comment.

So when you are creating a post,
you need to think about what will

generate comments underneath that post.

So I can post a beautiful boudoir
picture that I took and write, Hey,

check out this beautiful boudoir photo.

Maybe it'll get a few likes.

Maybe someone will be like, lovely.

Right?

But in general, that sort of a post
doesn't create the kind of response where

people think I should comment on this.

Contrast that to this.

What if I post one boudoir picture
in color, in one, in black and white

together in a collage, and I say.

Which do you like better?

The color or the black and white.

Now, suddenly the people who see that
post are gonna say, oh, I have an

opinion, and they're gonna write color or
black and white in the comment section.

Suddenly now I have a post with
12, 15, 20 comments, people

being like black and white.

I like how the color pops.

Color, black and white.

Black and white's my favorite.

I always like black and white, right?

And once you have some more comments
generated on that post, more people in

the group are gonna be shown the post,
and you're gonna get more eyeballs

on that beautiful photo that I took.

So that is the most important thing
you need to think about when you're

creating posts in a Facebook group,
is what will generate interaction,

what will generate comments.

It doesn't matter how beautiful or how
engaging your post is, if no one sees it.

It's sort of useless and the best
way to get people to see it is

to get comments underneath of it.

Reed: That's a, that's a great point.

And you know, I think when you began the
answer to that question, you were saying

you need to to know what Facebook prefers.

And so by extension.

you were to start a community on a
different platform, say like, try to

start a YouTube community or maybe a
subreddit, um, tho those same rules apply.

Like it, it's, um, you have
to understand what, what that

particular platform values.

Um.

You know, and I, I think, you know, if,
if by example, if you were trying to go

onto Instagram, you need to, you need to
create reels, you need to create stories.

Uh, and, and, and that's, that's
how you get in, uh, you know, in

high ranking with the algorithm.

Liz: Yeah, and each platform's
a little bit different, right?

So you cannot, I would not recommend
just copying and pasting the same

thing that you're using on Facebook,
on LinkedIn, or the same thing you are

using on Instagram, on TikTok, right?

Like there is some crossover.

Like you definitely can create
some content and then reuse it in

different ways on different platforms.

But you need to be aware of how it
could best be used on each platform

and not just assume that you can post
the same thing across all of them.

Reed: Right.

Like, yeah.

You know, an example of that being,
know, even though reels or stories

and tiktoks have the same, um, screen
orientation, um, and when you create

a TikTok, it actually gives you the
option to share it to Instagram.

doesn't like when, when TikTok
does that and, and posts.

The, uh, TikTok logo on the video.

So, um, you know, best to either rerecord
or, or have a, have an independent

file that you upload, um, separately.

Um, well, within Facebook though,
you know, there's, you know,

Facebook's evolved over time.

You know, I, I, I think we start, I, I
think you started using it in oh seven.

I might have started using it in
oh eight, something like that.

And it's, it's changed over time.

Um.

You know, and, and maybe different
generations look at other platforms.

Would you, you recommend that if
somebody were to start a new community

that they start with Facebook?

Or would you, uh, recommend
they go to a different platform?

Liz: That's a really good question,
and I think it really depends on what

industry you're in, what audience you're
trying to reach, and what your goals are.

So for me, for example, I.

I run a boudoir studio that
focuses primarily on women, and

I'm in the suburbs of Chicago.

My target demographic is
30 women, age 35 to 50.

Guess what?

Women age?

35 to 50.

They're on Facebook.

They're still on Facebook, right?

Um, they like Facebook.

They've been on Facebook for a
long time, and I generate a lot of

business by spending time on Facebook.

Now if your target audience instead
is like, I don't know, 16 to

19-year-old young men, Facebook
might not be the place for you.

You know, you might have a lot more
success find, you know, on YouTube

or TikTok or some other place.

Um, so you need to think carefully about
who it is exactly you're trying to reach.

And if you don't know exactly who you're
trying to reach, do a little digging.

Talk to people who are buying your
cli, who are buying your product.

Find out who they are.

Where they're hanging out.

Um, now of course there are women
who come into my studio all the

time who are not on Facebook.

You know, they're on, uh, and I do try
to diversify, so on various splices,

but about 50% of the women who end up.

Booking me and booking a
boudoir photo shoot with me.

Tell me that at one point or another
before they came into the studio,

they connected with me on Facebook.

So that might have been a Facebook
ad, the Facebook group, my Facebook

business page, something like that.

So I know at least 50% of my clientele
is coming through Facebook before

they, uh, come into my studio.

So for me, it's a great place
to be and I'm gonna keep putting

some time and effort there.

Alongside some other diversified efforts.

I never, you never wanna put all your
eggs in one basket, but you need to

find out if your people are on Facebook.

They may be, they may not be.

There's a, you know, there are
billions of people on Facebook, you

know, but are your people on Facebook?

That's the important question you need
to answer before you start putting

a lot of time and effort there.

Reed: Now I'm also interested about this
kind of adjacent, adjacent marketing

or marketing based on the, like a
mission that that you described earlier.

Can all businesses like a
larger theme in a community?

They build, um, you know how.

Is there like a general rule of thumb
on, uh, different kinds of business?

'cause you know, this, this
podcast will go to entrepreneurs

or business owners of all kinds.

Um, know, and, and you know, it, it seems
to, you know, like tie in perfectly,

you know, focusing on empowering women.

Um, with your, uh, boudoir photography,
but what about like another, like a home

service based business or, um, you know,
somebody that, that has a product are,

are, do you have any advice for them?

Different, different industries?

Liz: I mean, it's an interesting question.

There's a lot of, um, businesses
these days who are striving

to be mission based, right?

You think about like Tom's shoes,
they started and their goal

is to like give away shoes to.

People who need shoes, right?

Or like Bombas socks gives away
socks to people who need socks,

as far as I understand it, right?

So a lot of businesses are
attempting this mission-based.

Aspect.

Um, I think one of the most important
things is to remain authentic.

Like you don't wanna just cook
up some mission that's not

actually your mission, right?

So I'm a boudoir photographer.

I take sensual pictures of women in a safe
environment, and I really truly believe

that this can be an empowering, beautiful.

Experience for women.

I mean, this is really why I do what I do,
because I really think it has an effect.

It's real, it, it had an
effect on me when I did it.

I've seen the effect that it has
on clients who come into my studio.

So my mission isn't just something
that I made up as a marketing, you

know, gimmick or something like,
I truly, honestly believe that.

When women claim their own power,
we can change society and the world.

And that boudoir can be a way to do that.

So I think the first thing, if you
are considering either adding or

reemphasizing a mission portion of
your business is to make sure that

it is truly authentic and not just
like, oh yeah, we help the homeless.

Like, and that's not actually
what you believe in, right?

So stay authentic.

And then number two, I do think.

For most businesses, there is a deeper
reason why you are doing your business.

Yes, you're in business
because you wanna make money.

A business is about making money.

You're not running a charity.

I get it.

But is there some deeper
reason why you're choosing this

business instead of another one?

You know, I could take pictures
of babies or dogs or any other

thing, but why do I in particular
wanna take pictures of women?

So you're, maybe you're in home
services, like you mentioned Reid.

Are you in home services?

'cause you truly want people in
your community to have a safer

home or more beautiful home.

Are you really in the business of
helping families feel like they,

their home is the, their sanctuary?

Like why is it that you are in home
services and not in some other business?

I think if you can start answering those
kinds of questions, you can dig a little

deeper to understand what your mission
combined with your business might be.

Reed: That's a, that, that's
a really good, uh, insight.

And, and I, I think everybody should
consider, you know, this, this does

like zoom out a little bit on, um,
on, on your business and, and maybe.

If you take a, a moment and, and think
about, uh, your answer to that question

that will help you your branding, it'll
help you to decide who your community is.

Um, you know, I think that's, that's
something everybody should, should think

Liz: Well, you always have to
remember too, people often aren't

buying your product because of
the product, but because it's how

it's gonna make them feel, right?

So.

You know, if you're selling, um, home
security systems, they, you are selling

them peace of mind and security.

You're not just selling the
wires and the buttons, right?

You're selling them the peace of
mind that they will feel when they

have this home security system,
um, installed in their house.

If you're a pest control provider,
you're not just killing pests, you're

also helping the homeowner feel.

Peaceful in their home when they know
they're not gonna see a cockroach

in the kitchen the next day.

Right?

So there is almost always, even
in the most mundane of products,

there is almost always a bigger
reason why someone is buying it,

besides just the product itself.

It's the feeling they want to have
when they purchase your product.

And I think that can
lead you to a mission.

Another thing too, like, like you said,
I think almost every business could,

um, come up with an adjacent business.

I know photographers, for example,
if you're taking senior pictures,

like high school year, senior
pictures, maybe you could create a

community around parents who are.

What are, what are parents doing senior
year of coll uh, high school, right?

They're preparing to help
their child launch and apply to

college and find their first job.

Could you create a group around that,
like a parent support group for your

community as their kids launch, um, you
know, out of the nest, if you were a

wedding photographer, could you create
a group where, um, let's say I was

a bride last month and I still have.

36 candle holders left
over from my tables.

Could you create a resell group where,
um, bride to bride in your community,

they could reuse decor, right?

If you're a pet photographer, could you
take on the mission of finding homes

for foster dogs and puppies or, you
know, donating to the shelter, right?

So like it's very easy to quickly
take whatever service it is you

offer and expand it to a mission if
you just think a little bit bigger.

Reed: Yeah, well said.

Um, you know, actually as, as you
were talking, I was thinking about,

you know, my audience and, you know,
how, how I would create a community.

So you've given me
something to think about.

Um, now let's pivot a little
bit and let's talk about.

another aspect of marketing
the technology and, you know,

you can't talk about marketing
technology without talking about ai.

So, you know, as a studio owner, uh, how
do you see AI affecting your business?

You know, going forward in the,
like in 2025 and 2026 and beyond.

Liz: So AI is, it's hit
us quickly here, right?

Like, I mean, a couple years ago I didn't
use any AI AI tools that I knew of.

I mean, maybe somewhere
embedded, somewhere, whatever.

And then all of a sudden, you know, chat,
GBT, Gemini, every, it has just come on.

So suddenly, um, sometimes I wonder
if it's like I am like the lady in

the log cabin, suddenly our town is
getting electrified, and I'm like, oh.

No technology, you know, but I really
think ai, you know, it is new, it

is powerful, and it is here to stay.

So this is not something that's going
away, and it is going to affect, in

my opinion, every aspect of our lives
in the same way that when the internet

showed up, that has affected every
aspect of our lives going forward.

So.

As a boudoir photography owner,
I mean, it's gonna affect every

aspect of my business as well.

So I mean, when it first came
out, when I first saw like Image

Generation on Mid Journey and
Chachi, bt, my first thought is I.

No one's gonna want a boudoir picture.

They're just gonna want an AI generated
version of themselves looking beautiful.

And hey, some people might want that.

And I've used Chay BT to make little
avatars of myself and turn myself

into a comic book hero and stuff.

And that's fun.

And I don't think that's going away,
and I think that's still gonna happen.

In terms of what I offer though,
I offer more than just a photo.

I offer a whole experience where
someone comes to the studio, they

get their hair and makeup done.

They spend half a day there at
the studio with me and my staff.

It's really truly an experience and I
think as AI becomes more popular and

more pervasive, we as a society, people,
Americans, we're gonna be seeking out

more and more real experiences like that.

We're gonna wanna go do things where
we can experience stuff, where we're

gonna wanna get off our phones and our
computers and pay for something that

we can actually feel and experience.

So I do think, at least for a
little while, boudoir photography

is gonna have some staying power.

However, there's definitely AI
happening on the backend, so there

are already AI retouching tools that
can take acne off your skin instead of

having to do it by hand on Photoshop.

There are AI marketing tools to
write marketing emails and to create

landing pages and to create graphics
and all those kinds of things.

There is gonna be AI assistance
to help with booking and calendars

and all that kind of stuff, so ai.

I hope for me and my business will
continue to be a really valuable tool

to, um, create more efficiency and a
better experience for my clients, but

will never replace the human touch and
the creativity that I offer one-on-one

when women come into my studio.

Reed: That's, uh, that's a good point.

And, uh, I, I have observed that, you
know, so I do marketing campaigns and

I've observed that when I've experimented
around, you know, generating AI

and fully automating a campaign, I.

Those don't work.

The, you do have to have a human
touch, uh, something custom, something

maybe a little less polished as a
part of it, you know, like a, an

actual phone call as a part of it.

Um, or else it, it just, it rings
hollow, you know, people, people

can dismiss it, um, as easy, as
easily as you can automate it.

Um, now

Liz: I think as, as time goes on, people's
radar is gonna get better and they're

gonna say, I know this is ai, but you
know, also AI's gonna get better too.

So I think, you know, it's interesting
as in particular as a photographer,

I think when digital photography
showed up on the scene and started to

disrupt the film industry, everyone
was like, photography is dead right?

And you know, only true photos
are the only true photos out.

There are ones that were taken on film.

And digital photography did disrupt
film and it did change photography.

But it didn't ruin it.

It, it just, it changed
into something else.

Right.

And I think AI is gonna be similar, right?

People are saying, Hey, AI is
showing up on the scene here.

It's gonna ruin photography.

It's not gonna ruin photography,
but it's gonna change it, right?

It is gonna change our relationship.

To a digital image, we're gonna
question if it's real or not.

We're gonna question how it was
created, how it was manipulated,

who was the creator, who's the
subject, those kinds of things.

But I think digital imagery,
digital creation, photography

is of course here to stay.

AI is just gonna affect it, and
we need to use it and be ready

for it and not be scared of it.

Reed: Do you think there's anything in
a business process or marketing process

that should never be automated with ai?

Liz: I mean, I don't want
to see a robot doctor.

Um, you know, I wanna see a human.

I don't wanna get maybe
a massage from a robot.

Um, but, you know, interestingly,
if a robot could like do my nails

really perfect and never mess up,
like, I don't know, I'm open to it.

Um, we will see.

I'd be open to eating a meal
prepared by a robot chef.

Um.

I think a lot of our food is
grown by robots and machines.

We don't realize, um, I think houses
are gonna start being built more, you

know, with some kind of automation,
some kind of 3D printed house.

Like I'd be open to living
in a 3D printed house.

Um, I just think.

I think we need smart, thoughtful
people at the helm to think about

the implications of what we're
doing and, you know, keep a,

keep a finger on the pulse of ai.

You know, we don't need
the robot uprising, right?

We don't, we need to be careful
about robot drones with bullets.

Um.

You know, we need to be careful
about those things, but I am open

to a lot of automation and AI
things that I think could make our

world safer, better, and more fun.

Reed: And the correct answer to that
question was community building.

Just kidding.

I,

Liz: Oh yeah.

Also,

Reed: I'm.

Liz: yes.

Reed: Because, because, you know, and,
but you know, I was, I'm sorry, I'm just

teasing you, but the community building,
it really does have to have a human touch.

Like, it

Liz: Yeah.

Reed: you know, and you've, you've done
so much video in your, uh, your VIP group,

and you've done so much like you said.

Um.

Manual commenting.

And, you know, I, I people sense that
this is real and they, they engage

because it's real and there's like
a real person behind it, you know?

And not only that, it's, there is a,
uh, a person, not a company behind it.

And so they like, they, they
feel connected to you more so

than, um, than the business.

And,

Liz: Yeah.

And you know, I've spent hours
and hours and hours and hours

over the years in that group.

Um, building connections, making
comments and that kind of thing.

And it, the, the one-on-one way
in which I have managed to reach

through the screen to people in
that group has really paid off.

I run into people in my community who are
in my VIP Facebook group all the time.

They recognize my face and
they wanna come talk to me.

This happened the first time.

I was like, wait, what?

You know who I am?

And they're like, I've
seen you in the group.

I know who I'm, who you are.

I just, can I talk to you?

I'm just, my name's Michelle.

You know who I am.

You know, they, they felt like
we had this human connection even

though we'd never met in person.

And this has, over the years,
this has happened to me.

Dozens of time we were in
line at the United Center.

A girl ran out of line to come say
hi to us United Center's, a big

basketball arena here in Chicago.

She wanted to say hi.

I was at the doctor, not a robot doctor,
a human doctor recently, and the nurse

who checked me in was like, by the way,
I know you from the VIP Facebook group.

I'm probably not supposed to say this.

And I was like, oh, like the nurse,
you know, and my gym, a girl on

the stair stepper next to me.

She was like, I just have to ask you
kind of look like this girl named

Liz that I've seen on Facebook.

I mean, I.

I truly believe that the hours
that I've put in making that group

personalized, showing up, being me,
being real, being a human, has paid off

in people feeling like they know me.

And if you know anything about running
a small business, you know that some

of the first steps you need to make
to run a small businesses, people need

to know you, like you, and trust you.

Now, you don't have to get everyone in the
world to know you, like you and trust you,

but you have to get people who want to.

Hire you to know you,
like you, and trust you.

People who hire service providers
like myself, I consider myself

a service provider, even though
I also serve, uh, sell products.

They hire me because they
know me like me and trust me.

And a lot of that know, like trust
factor has come through that VIP group.

There are hundreds of boudoir
photographers in my area and I'm

sure they're getting business too.

But the, the reason people pick me for
many reasons for their photo shoot over

some other provider is 'cause they.

Felt like they knew me, like me, and
trust me, especially for boudoir, right?

If you're gonna do something that's
so intimate, so exposing as taking

some sensual pictures at a boudoir
photo studio, you wanna go a place

where you feel safe, where you
feel like you can trust the person.

And that has come not from me, just saying
over and over, book a boudoir shoot book

a boudoir shoot book, a boudoir shoot,
but by me showing up as my authentic self,

real me real Liz in the group talking
about daily things, showing that I care.

Offering things to my community.

So I do a lot of free stuff.

I promote other businesses so that I
show that my empathy and how I really

care about my, my mission, and it is
just, it's really paid off for me.

Reed: Well, those are some
great closing thoughts.

Um, you know, and I think to sum
it up, you know, a authenticity

can't be replaced by ai.

You know, there's, there are some
things that AI can do really well,

but, you know, genuine engagement
just is, is not one of them.

And, um, you know, I love, I love
the, the explanation of trust

and, and this, this, uh, group
you've been able to put together.

You know, I think, um.

I mean, you have shown me comments
in the past where people say that

this group means a lot to them.

You know, that they, they
appreciate the support.

You know, they've shared some, um,
you know, uh, tough times in their

life and they've gotten a lot of
comments of support and, and, you

know, that's gotta make you feel good.

So, um, great way to do more
with your business than just, um.

You know, make money, you know?

And so that's, that is a tremendous,
so, Liz, I really appreciate

you getting on the podcast.

Um, will see you round, I guess.

Liz: Yeah, maybe since we live in the.

Reed: but you know, you know, you, you
are a, you know, a tremendous marketer

and, um, have such a good job with your,
your business and, and in helping others.

So, um, thanks for joining
the, the podcast today.

Liz: Can I say before you close, I do
think that is a really important part

about being a small business owner, is to
find that deeper reason, not just for your

audience, but also for yourself, right?

Because running a small business is hard.

I.

And it requires showing up daily
and it requires a lot of work.

And if you have that deeper mission, that
deeper connection with your community

and that you know that there's people
who are making a difference in your

life, it's gonna be easier to show
up and keep serving that community.

And then if you're just
for a paycheck, right?

Anyone can go get a job
and get a paycheck, right?

But not everyone can make a difference.

And so if you can find and build a
community where you know you can make a

difference, not only will your business
thrive, but I think you as a, as an

entrepreneur, you as a business owner,
will feel more fulfilled and happy

with the work that you were doing.

Reed: Well, that is an inspiring
thought for the, the rest of today.

Um, well, great.

Liz, we, I'm sure we'll
have you back on, um.

Uh, really appreciate the, the
thoughts um, you know, thanks

for, thanks for all the, the great
information and experience you shared.

Liz: Thanks for having me.