Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Welcome to Inside Marketing
With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed: Hello, and welcome to Inside
Marketing with Market Surge.

Today's guest is Jared Nygren, a
systems thinker, a SaaS builder, and

the founder behind one of the most
quietly powerful tools reshaping how

businesses approve, pay, and move.

Jared is the creator of approved.io,

a lightweight approval and payment
platform built for real world teams who

are tired of chasing signatures, getting
ghosted or watching deals stall, because

no one knows who's supposed to say yes.

approved.io

makes approvals and payouts clear,
trackable, and done with all the

bloated tools or confusing processes.

Before launching approved.io,

Jared spent.

Over a decade solving operational
problems inside fast moving startups

and enterprise environments.

That's where he first saw the chaos,
firsthand, the endless bottlenecks,

the broken workflows, the who's in
charge of this moments, and decided

to build something that just works.

today's episode, we'll talk about
how Jared went from problem to

product, why simplicity is a power
feature, and what most founders

get wrong about operational flow.

welcome to the show.

Jared Nygren: Hey, thanks, Reed.

Excited to be here.

Reed: glad to have you.

And um, also a big part of this story
is Jared's a friend of mine, a personal

friend of mine, and the original founder
and owner of Market Surge, and, uh, passed

the baton to myself and team and, um, so
really excited for that insight as well.

um, love to jump in on your
current venture approved.io.

Tell us a little bit about the problem
you identified and are trying to solve

and what pushed you to, to jump into this.

Jared Nygren: Yeah, so I'll start
with kind of a brief overview of what

the challenge is that we're solving.

So customer retention is a big problem
in the home service industry, so the

average annual customer retention
rate pest control is right around 78%.

Which means, you know, roughly one in
five customers are canceling each year.

So that's a huge problem to solve.

Uh, a minor change in your retention
rate can, can mean hundreds of

thousands of dollars depending
on the size of your company.

Um, so that's the problem that
we're going after, and we do that

through a couple of key things.

So the first is onboarding.

So when a customer comes on,
making sure that they understand

what they're agreeing to.

So in home services, when you've got
reoccurring services, it's very, very

common, especially in door-to-door
sales for, customers to not have a full

grasp of what they're setting up for.

So getting off on the
wrong foot's a huge issue.

The next is service quality, and so
we help, service teams get aligned on.

Key metrics for the company.

So we track lots of different
metrics that a technician will do.

We mainly focus with pest control
companies right now, but you can think

of things like average time on site.

How many reservices have they had?

How many Google reviews
did that technician get?

All sorts of, you know, we have
15, 20 different metrics that you

can track these technicians on and
leaderboard them really to drive that.

Performance and get that feedback
loop going to the technicians so

they can know where they can improve.

Um, and then the last piece of that is
getting that feedback from the customer.

So we help collect, um, reviews, reward
technicians with digital tipping.

Um, all of this.

Designed to help customer retention.

Um, and so we've seen some great
results so far with some of the

companies that we're working with,
where they're seeing upwards of

18% customer retention increasing.

So it's been a fun ride.

Reed: fantastic.

Um, well, so a question.

You know, obviously a lot of people in
the audience are startups or in the middle

of startups trying to refine the product.

where did you come to the knowledge
that this was such an issue?

Like how did you become acquainted with
this industry so well and, decide to

throw a lot of effort and your time on it?

Jared Nygren: Yeah, so it's
definitely getting in the game, right?

Like the, once we started the problem
and the issue and what we're solving

has become so much more clear.

So when we first got
into the game, it was, I.

Really when I was with Market Surge, we
had a couple of pest control accounts

that started helping us see really
some solutions that they were looking

for, for some of their problems,
which was directly connected with

staff performance and finding ways
to get their technicians to do better

work to keep their customers happier.

And we took an entry into the market
through that, and it's expanded.

A lot since then.

So, um, I think there's a couple different
ways to get into entrepreneurship.

One is kind of the MBA path where
you analyze the market from a

top down approach, you find what
you think is a problem, make

sure the market's big enough.

The other, I think, is the kind of the
scrappy approach from bottoms up where

you're looking, uh, for a single customer
who's got a problem and it's very likely

that someone else has got that problem and
you start solving and building from there.

And I think that's kind of
the approach proof taken.

Reed: Interesting.

And, that is another interesting aspect
that you mentioned that you learned

while at your previous startup surge
about this problem and that helped you

transition into your current startup.

And so it was actually kind of on
the job that you learned it and.

By observing, questioning, um, you
know, ultimately, diving in, now

you are a serial entrepreneur, even
before market Surge, you had startups.

what drives you to do that?

what's the impetus there?

Is it just a personality
type, short attention

Jared Nygren: Yeah,
that's a good question.

I've always been attracted to it.

I think it's been in the family, right?

My dad was an entrepreneur,
his dad was an entrepreneur.

So I think I've been surrounded by
it, but I've always been drawn to it.

I think the no cap potential is really.

Inspiring and there's a lot of
fulfillment that I just haven't been

able to find working in a larger company.

Reed: Worked in a larger company.

what would you say are some of
the things you and don't like

about, the two, you know, so,

Jared Nygren: Yes.

The large corporations are
awesome in many ways, right?

I think there's a much easier ability
to shut it off once you're outta work.

I think you can really live a really
great life with a corporate career.

But I think if it's in your blood
to build and create something,

I think you, you just, it's.

It feels a little bit captivating,
and so I think being an entrepreneur,

you get to go out there and build.

What you've dreamed about.

But it does come with
some drawbacks, right?

You can't just turn it off.

It's, it's the puck ends with you
and, it's stressful often, right?

So you're constantly trying to figure
things out, reinvent, and, it can

really creep into your personal life
and dominate if you're not, watching it.

Reed: Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, um, so you, uh, you know, you
had several startups, but, um, I, I,

you know, knowing you, well, I know
you've picked up skills along the way.

What are some of the similar skills
that you think are really important

that an entrepreneur should have?

Uh, that's, that's really
benefiting you now and approve.

Jared Nygren: Yeah, I think one of
the biggest things I've learned about

entrepreneurship through my whole journey
with it, um, is sell before you build.

Um, I think that can really
help you feel out the demand.

Before trying to build something
and see if people want it.

Um, I think there's many different
ways into entrepreneurship.

One of the ones that's commonly taught
in academia is the lean startup method.

Which is great.

Um, but I think sometimes you can get
too caught in the weeds of creating a

hypothesis and trying to prove it wrong.

I think there's definitely a path into
entrepreneurship that way, but if you

just simplify it down to sell something
and just try and deliver it, I think

that is really what entrepreneurship is.

If you can sell it, someone's willing
to pay for it, and you can build it.

You can make a company.

Reed: Now you're not a
developer per se, Jared.

When you say build, like you're
outsourcing that now, how have

you learned, um, how do you as a
non-engineer, non-computer developer,

how have you managed that process?

Jared Nygren: Yeah, so I think from the
start building with tools that you feel

comfortable with, so whether that's low
code or white label, I think if you're

wanting to be in the software space,
that's a great way to dip your toes in

and get a feel for running a software as
a service company when you start building

your platform from scratch, I think
it's very difficult to be a solo founder

that's not technical and try and bring
on employees or contractors to build it.

So I, I have a co-founder
who is a developer

Reed: Okay.

Jared Nygren: and, um, that is.

Huge.

I don't think I, I would not have been
possible without someone who's got

skin in the game who's a developer
and can lead that side of things.

Reed: That's, that's good to hear.

And like, you know, you mentioned the
aspect of not, he's not just a mercenary

or a, um, offshore technical resource.

he's got some skin in the game and, um.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's very helpful.

Do you see, you also interact
with a lot of other entrepreneurs.

I've met a lot of them through
you and do you see a mistake

that entrepreneurs often make?

Um, or like certain that you
see they're often up against?

Um, you know, and I can think of a
few examples, but, anything come to

mind right off the bat when people
are starting their journey there?

Jared Nygren: Yeah, cash
flow is a big one, right?

So if you underestimate your cash flow,
I think that's probably one of the

number one ways people fail, right?

They don't properly calculate
how long it's gonna take to get,

a business that's paying them.

So one way to really ease outta
that is you don't quit your job

or you don't whatever you're doing
until your income's equaled out.

And I've pretty much followed that with
every venture I've taken, that there's

really either the revenue or the income
is replaced what I was making, or there's

really, really strong signals where.

It doesn't really feel like you're
taking a jump at that point.

I think that's where a lot of people
get it wrong or feeling like they're

building something people want without
really having tried to sell it.

Reed: Yeah, that's a excellent point.

Um, you know, can I ask you, let's talk a
little bit about approve and your product.

Um, you have to make a lot of decisions.

I know it's a lot of work to develop
a product and, uh, you probably

have a lot more ideas than you
have time or resources to build.

How do you prioritize these?

Um, you know, I, I think you've kind
of given us a preview of how you make

decisions around, but, uh, you know,
like how, how have you prioritized?

Jared Nygren: That is
definitely the golden question.

It is really tough.

' when you really start getting in
the weeds with, 10, 20, 30 clients,

you start getting lots of amazing
product feedback and you start seeing

all the directions you could go.

And it does become really,
really difficult, to know where

to prioritize very quickly,
especially if you have a co-founder.

That's on the development side and you're
leading the direction of the product.

You'll make their lives miserable
if you keep trying to throw in

different features and products.

I think you have to keep it very tight.

And I think we're still learning this.

I don't think I have the golden ticket
answer on how to prioritize the best,

but from what I believe you've gotta
keep your core features very tight.

You've gotta deliver really, really
well and stick in that route for quite

some time until you have enough revenue
to justify going outside of that.

And that's a tough thing.

You have to say no to a lot of stuff.

Reed: Now, um, uh, you know, having
started, uh, or worked with white label

platforms, existing platforms that
you've rebranded and low code solutions

and, building from scratch, you know,
building full stack applications,

you've run the whole gamut now.

Where do you, make decisions about
buy or integrate versus build?

how do you balance that in your mind?

Do you have a rule of thumb or
have you had experiences that,

give you a good instinct for it?

Jared Nygren: Yeah,
that's a good question.

Um, my instinct would be to avoid
building initially if you can, and

once you demonstrate that, okay,
this is a very strong direction.

Then it might make sense to build it, to
give yourself a little more flexibility

on customizing it, making it unique.

But I would always lean towards what's
the fastest, cheapest way we can get this

out there and get a feel for the demand.

Reed: Okay.

now, as, as like a non-engineer,
how would you evaluate the quality

of the product that's being built?

Um, you know, like, how do you keep your
technical team sharp and, um, making

sure that this is really top tier.

mean, is it just a lot of testing and
a lot of feedback or, or do you have

other measures to, help steer them?

Jared Nygren: Yeah, I mean, in
larger organizations you've got

quality assurance testers, right?

They're, they're every, before
anything's pushed, they're testing

everything, making sure that
it's not gonna affect some other.

Part of the platform when it's a
scrappy team, that's me, right?

I'm the QA guy.

I'm going through and trying to test
things as quickly and as fast as we can.

Um, but it's a fast pace.

When you got things you're
trying to build quickly, you

don't have a lot of resources.

Um, everyone's gotta wear those
hats of looking for issues.

I think where we've been able to, overcome
some of those challenges of being small

is we're very quick to respond to issues.

So if customer says,
Hey, this isn't working.

We're on it immediately, versus
having to route it up through

customer support to a senior dev.

I mean, it's coming right to
the people who built it, right?

So we're constantly monitoring that.

Very close.

Reed: Okay.

That's good.

Well, change gears a little bit.

Let's talk about the sales and
marketing part of entrepreneurship.

You, explained how you got initial
customers, you know, it was a

problem that they had described
and so you, had built it for them.

But the next step is how do you take it to
customers 2, 3, 4, and then like 501,000.

What are the steps that the
various growth stages for you

Jared Nygren: Yeah.

Reed: sell and market effectively?

Jared Nygren: Yeah, so for us,
um, customer 2, 3, 4, up to 10

was we used cold email and we
used cold LinkedIn outreach.

So used instantly and we used a
tool called Gify, and it's not, I

think you can get really great at
that, using signals and, and trying

to really reach the right people.

Our approach probably wasn't the
sharpest, but it worked enough, right?

So we brought in our first, I'd
say 10 accounts through that.

And then from there we really
went into product mode.

And I would say we're just
coming outta that phase.

So the rest of our accounts were all word
of mouth and really getting a feel for.

What people want, what
the product needs to be.

And then there's kind of a couple phases.

You first build the core features, it's
functional, but there's a lot of things

you're still doing in the background.

When you onboard an
account, it's not seamless.

You gotta do a lot of manual things,
and that's okay to the customer, it

looks like it's seamless, but from a
scalability standpoint, you're not.

You're not there, right?

So that's kind of the next
phase is now we've gotta get

this all packaged together.

We know what it is.

We've got the product, right?

Let's get it scalable.

And then I think you can really push
down the pedal on getting sales.

Reed: That's awesome.

You know, and even as you are
describing the, process of building a

tech company, I do think what you're
describing is pretty relevant for a

service company that's trying to deliver
something kind of unique or high end.

I think a lot of those principles
hold true that, um, you know, you've

gotta get, a minimum viable product
out there and then, take some

feedback in and then recalibrate,
and then focus on major outreach.

You know, and your early customers
are gonna be word of mouth, you know,

I think that's, how it will work.

Um, have you utilized, giving.

People free licenses or demo accounts.

is that frequently, you know, like a
lot of people starting their business

are trying to get reviews or feedback,
and they give away free things.

Um, how,

Jared Nygren: Yeah.

Reed: do you think about that?

Jared Nygren: We haven't done that.

I don't think that that's
necessarily a bad strategy.

I really like the level of,
validation that you get when

someone gives you money, right?

I think that says a lot about
what they feel, even if someone's

given you money and your product.

Isn't that great?

That means there's real demand there.

They're willing to deal with
something that's not perfect

because the pain is that bad.

But I think when you give someone a free
account, it's harder to tell, right?

You have to really look
okay, are they using it?

and then are you convincing
them to use it often?

Trying to get them back in there?

I mean, I think when someone's
paying money, they're not gonna keep

paying it if they're not using it.

So it's just a really clear way to.

See whether someone wants it.

Reed: So let's talk a little bit about
the, the future of, um, the product.

Like obviously, you know, as a you can't
wear all the hats forever and, uh, still

be effective and grow at a similar rate.

Um, what roles do you think you'll
keep and what roles do you think

you might hire, uh, additional staff
and what others might you outsource?

Jared Nygren: Yeah.

Uh, I think it'll always be, we wanna
keep it as lean as possible, and I think

in the new world of ai, there's a lot of
amazing opportunities to do that, right?

I think we're in a really cool
time to be an entrepreneur because.

There's opportunities that were just
unprecedented, before, you know.

So, um, I think our next role is
bringing on, one more additional

developer, CMO and then a sales vp.

And I think we've got
a pretty strong team.

Reed: Fantastic.

Yeah, that's great.

And, Do you think you'll continue to
expand, beyond that to service other

problems for these service businesses?

Or do you think that you would
just like to stay pretty focused

on these additional problems and
the solution you have and grow?

Jared Nygren: Yeah.

And I, that's a good question.

I think we have definitely outlined
a lot of growth opportunities

from a product standpoint.

So we've got a big pipeline
of where we could go.

Um, I think for now, our goal is to keep
with our core and scale that, because

at some point you've gotta get outta
product and really start scaling to grow.

Reed: No, that, yeah,
that does make sense.

Um, well, I wanna give you a little
chance to talk more about approve, you

know, your business is doing really
well and like you've described, what

is your pitch to potential clients.

You know, what if they come to you
cold and maybe not totally aware of.

This problem, like for some it might be a
problem they don't realize they're having.

How would you describe that and, show
'em why they might need to use approve?

Jared Nygren: Yeah, so I think it
comes down to pointed questions, right?

So asking, do you have anything to measure
your technicians and understanding what

tools or things they have in place there.

A lot of pest control companies don't
have robust tools to measure their

technicians across 10, 15, 20, metrics
leader, boredom, set automated rewards.

I mean, that's a very.

Um, newer, advanced thing
to be able to do, right?

Uh, I think there's tools you
can piece together to do it.

Uh, but to have a system that does
it all in one, I think is, is pretty

powerful for a pest control company.

Um, the other thing, uh, is, you
know, what, what are you using to

verify your contracts or what is known
in the industry as a welcome call?

Are you using anything
for your welcome calls?

Um, and a lot of companies are using.

Uh, you know, a Google form or a paper
form, and there's just not a great

way to really know if the customer
was on board with what they agreed to.

So, and it, I think on the outside
of that problem, it, it seems a

little, it's hard to see that pain.

But when you get into the industry,
especially door to door knockers,

it's a big problem because you
have a customer saying, I did.

I did not agree to that.

And now it's between what the customer
said and the sales rep said on the door.

And so being able to validate
that with clear video audio

evidence is, is a really big deal.

Reed: Well, that's, yeah.

No, that makes a lot of sense.

And I am not a pest control expert, but,
um, you know, I follow what you're saying.

You know, it seems like, I
should be evaluating this.

I need to defend my, brand reputation
and deliver high quality service,

hold the technicians, accountable.

And when they're away at another
location, there's no way to monitor

unless I actually take some steps.

So that's great.

Um, so Jared, just as we wrap
up, where can people find more

about approve and where can they
reach you if they have questions?

Jared Nygren: Yeah, so approved.io,

A PRU v.io

is, um.

Is our website.

You can book a demo.

It'll probably be me, or
someone from our team.

Um, that's a great place to reach us.

Or, um, my email, Jared n@approved.io.

Um, so yeah, always happy to chat and
connect with anyone in the industry.

Reed: Well, fantastic.

Thanks so much for joining us, Jared.

And, uh, you know, we talk
frequently and, you know, I've, I've

Want to stay ahead of what's actually
working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
grow smarter, faster, and louder.

That's market surge.io

because your next breakthrough
shouldn't be a guess.

Reed: appreciated all your insight on
entrepreneurship and marketing technology.

You know, we look forward to
seeing big things out of approve

and, continue to work together.

Jared Nygren: Yeah.

Thanks Reed.

Same to you.

Want to stay ahead of what's actually
working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
grow smarter, faster, and louder.

That's market surge.io

because your next breakthrough
shouldn't be a guess.