Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Reed: Hello, and welcome to Inside
Marketing with Market Surge.

I'm Reed Hansen, the Chief
Growth Officer of Market Surge.

I love to interview business
leaders who have great insights on

leadership, sales, and marketing.

And today I'm joined by Hudson
Roberts, head of in-House Sales,

retention and Digital Marketing
with Tri Guard Pest Control.

Welcome Hudson.

Hudson: Hi Reed.

Thanks for having me on.

Reed: Absolutely.

Hudson, would you mind giving us a quick
overview of your background and you

know, how you got to where you are today?

Hudson: A hundred percent.

So, um, about, uh, four or five years
ago, I, um, was just a young kid, had,

uh, had lots of experience working,
working the fields as a farmer and

landscaping and stuff like that, and
wanted to get into the marketing world.

So, um, I met a guy who convinced
me to go do door-to-door sales.

My brother was actually into it a
little bit and, um, I ended up doing

door-to-door sales for one year.

Um, made pretty good money and.

The, you know, didn't realize how
much money could be made and how,

how marketing works in general
until I had that experience.

But it also taught me that, uh, I
didn't want to do door to door forever.

Um, so I, I figured out a way on how to
start making sales, um, on the phone.

So I worked for a sales company,
um, for Vivid for a while.

Everybody knows Vivin, they're
a, a security systems company.

Worked for them for a little bit on the
phones and then, um, ended up coming

back to my old boss who owns the pest
control company and was like, Hey, I

think you should start an in-house sales.

Department, um, I think there's a
lot of money to be made on online and

he, uh, he didn't like it at first,
but eventually we, uh, we came to an

agreement and it was just me at first.

I was making phone calls and, uh,
eventually it grew a little bit more.

I, I, I pulled on a couple guys and
then it grew even more and more.

And then eventually I, um,
started working with the retention

side of the company as well.

'cause.

Same skillset to get people to stay
with you as it is to, um, get people

to, you know, start in the first place.

So, um, ended up starting two departments
for the company, um, managed them for

the last few years and everything.

And then within the last couple years,
I've, uh, more heavily leaned into, well,

how do we increase our in-house leads?

You know, rather than just the
organic stuff that's coming

to us, what do we do online?

And so I've really gotten into the
digital marketing, um, everything

from, uh, you know, even just
like website details to, um.

You know, a little bit of strategy as
far as Google, uh, as well as other lead

sources that we can pay into, and we've
kind of, kind of just grown quite a bit.

We're, we're getting bigger and we're
making more money than we've ever

made in, in here, in the in-house
sales department and everything.

And so it's been pretty
good and very educational.

So.

Reed: That's awesome.

So, you know, one thing I've really
enjoyed about working with you, Hudson,

is that you're willing to try a lot
of new things and you're always,

you know, looking for what's next
and, uh, you know, willing to, to.

You know, again, attempt, attempt
anything, you know, and I, I've,

I've appreciated that about you.

Um, can you talk to us a little bit about
Tri Guard's high level marketing playbook?

Uh, you know, you have
a variety of channels.

You mentioned organic and, and, uh,
you know, SEO ranking and, um, but

talk to which are your priorities?

What get the biggest slice of
your budget and, and why do

you emphasize ones over others?

Hudson: That's a good question.

Well, I, I appreciate you, uh,
saying we, you know, I'm not sure

if it's very wise of us to try as
many things as we do, but a lot of

this is a lot of adaptation, right?

You have to, you have to learn as you go.

And so you do have to be able to adapt.

We've tried a lot of
things, um, in recent years.

Um, this year, the biggest
thing we're pouring money.

Is, uh, Google, right?

Uh, pay per click as well as like Google
search, um, as well as local services ads.

That's definitely where our
biggest budget is going this year.

Um, we found that.

As far as everything that we've, you
know, in the past spent money on, um,

aside from natural growth and customer
referral programs and things like

that, the, the, the most effective
thing is how we rank online, right?

That's gonna be the,
the next biggest thing.

Um, we still have some door to door
guys that do the door-to-door sales

teams and everything like that, and
that helps get our brand awareness more.

Obviously, as you have our guys out
there, people see our trucks, people

see our guys, so there's a little bit
of natural growth that happens there.

Um.

But yeah, as far as where we put
our budget to increase leads, we

found that, you know, Google and our
online presence is, is really big.

So we've done that a lot.

Um, I.

In past years that we
haven't really liked.

And this is, this is something that I
think is helpful for a company that's a

little bit smaller to get started, but
we're getting big enough that it's just

not as profitable for us anymore is,
is paying into lead source generators.

So like previously we've done,
um, you know, I mean there's

a lot of people out there.

There's home advisor, Angie leads,
there's um, you know, lots of different

groups that will do different things.

And those, those things are really good.

Some people have a lot
of success with that.

But, um.

There's a lot of different laws
and regulations regarding customer

information being sold to third
party companies and stuff.

Now that's made it a little bit
more difficult, and so we found it

more beneficial to push more toward
generating our own leads through.

Google and other things like that.

So, um, we have done Facebook before
Meta, we've used them, they're great.

Um, we, we actually totally biffed it and
failed doing that the first time we tried.

We spent a lot of money
and got nothing back.

Um, but we realized that it was the
strategy and so we do have, uh, a new

guy that's kind of heading that up for
us and, um, seem to have some success.

We're actually pulling in leads
for that and we're, we have

high hopes for that this year.

So, um,

Reed: Yeah.

Hudson: of answer your question?

Reed: absolutely.

And so,

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: you know, you, you have
your door to door sales force.

Um, and, uh, remind me again,
you have three offices, right?

And, uh, or three geographies you cover.

Hudson: Yeah, so we have, yeah,
we have two offices in the

Greater Seattle, every area.

So everywhere from, you know, uh,
almost the Canadian border all the

way down, uh, south of Olympia.

Uh, and then we also have an office in
Vancouver, Washington, uh, so super south.

And then, um.

Portland, Oregon area.

And then we have an area here in
Boise, Idaho, which is where I am.

Um, and then we have an
office in Denver, Colorado.

So I've definitely grown a lot.

Pacific Northwest area primarily.

So.

Reed: Okay.

Um, just curious, like, do, do you have
any insight on the decision making?

You know, so you're in Seattle, um,
but there are other metros within.

You know, uh, that area Are
you wipe Seattle over others?

Um,

Hudson: Yeah.

Um, Seattle's actually where
we started, uh, south Seattle,

south of it, Renton area.

Um, the guy that started the
company, Terry, uh, he's no

longer around, but, um, he, um.

Started in Renton before I ever met him.

He, he's from Idaho, but he knew that
that was just gonna be a better market.

There's a higher need,
there's more bugs over there.

It's a little bit more of a humid
climate than, you know, Idaho.

Idaho's pretty dry over here.

There's, we have Anthem wasps a lot,
but not a lot of the other crazy

pests that they get over there.

So it was a great, great market to
start out back in, you know, 2016, 2017.

So, um.

That's where we started.

And then eventually we grew down
to Vancouver and Portland area.

And then within the last, uh,
four years is when we started

moving things over to Idaho and
started our headquarters over here.

Um, so obviously when it
comes to pest control, you go

where the bugs are, you know?

Um, and that's, that's why we
definitely started over there.

But there are plenty of pests in,
in the drier climates too, like

here in Idaho that have, we've
field mice, stuff like that.

We've definitely found our,
our little niche here, so.

Reed: Okay.

And so you have door to door,
Salesforce operating in all

those areas you described.

Hudson: Yep.

Yeah, we send out teams.

Sometimes it's larger in one
area than in another, obviously.

And um, one of the biggest things that
we've found, and I guess within the last

few years is that there's a significant
amount of money that we're losing

by not capitalizing on our digital.

Reed: Mm-hmm.

Hudson: because of how much we put
into the door-to-door guys historically

has been like a great thing, but
with so much reputation, so much, I

dunno, people seeing us and seeing our
trucks, but then not finding much of us

online or any of our, you know, making
sure we have a good online presence.

There's like a huge margin of
people that would otherwise.

Come to our company if
they could only find us.

And so it's like, it's really
big to make sure that you're,

you have a huge online presence.

Everything's digital now, right?

It's getting more and more that way.

And so, you know, I think the days are
coming that door-to-door salesman, maybe

eventually within the next, I dunno,
10, 15, 20 years start to go away.

We'll see.

But um, so making sure that you have a
good strategy there on the online is huge.

Reed: Yeah.

And you know, I ask about the, the
door to door Salesforce because,

you know, so we, um, we work with
a lot of different industries and.

You know, in, in PEs and a few other
home service related businesses,

um, door-to-door sales is, is quite
common, but, but it would seem quite

daunting, I think for like a photography
studio to even consider a door to door

approach or, you know, many of the, um.

You know, the other services that,
that, uh, you know, are possible,

like door-to-door just sounds so
foreign or so, um, so antiquated.

But it, it, it's obviously been
extremely effective for many

years in, in your industry, so, um

Hudson: Yeah, it's definitely
big in the service industry.

Um, you know, and I think, you know,
we have a lot of cool things that

are coming out nowadays, AI that
we're gonna talk about here soon.

Um, a lot of other things that make
things automated and automatic and

information's everywhere, so it's a
lot easier to figure things out even

without the face-to-face interaction.

But there is still something about
that face-to-face interaction that,

that personal experience that.

Carries a little bit of weight, which is
why I think things like door to door still

have such a big success rate currently.

Reed: Well, and now, uh, now kind
of the middle between your digital

presence and your, uh, door-to-door
staff, um, you, you have, uh,

call center professionals, right?

And, um,

Hudson: Yep.

Reed: how would you balance the,
between those two, like human driven

Salesforce is, you know, what are,
where do you put more manpower, uh,

you know, door to door or on the phone?

Hudson: Good question.

So, um, uh, we definitely
during the summer months have

quite a few door-to-door guys.

Um, like, uh, I think it's 200 this
year, the biggest team we've ever

had, which is, it's, it's a lot of,
a lot of people, um, our in-house.

Obviously we have a really big
customer service staff, um, not,

not as big as the sales force.

Um, our service staff is able to
realist, and when I say our, our

service staff, I'm talking about not my
in-house team, not my retention team.

Um, the office side with the customer
service scheduling and billing

is somewhere around 30 people.

Um, and so it's a decently,
decently big team.

Um.

Really good at following up
with our customers and we,

we just love 'em to death.

Um, my team, um, you know, I have
a handful of sales guys and then a

handful of retention guys, I think.

Yeah, somewhere around 10 or something.

Um.

People that are just to
do the, the in-house.

And you know, because we're on the
phones and we have the, the 1, 2, 3,

you know, uh, few markets, six offices
that we, we handle, we are able to

handle it remotely from Boise, right?

So our whole teams, um,
over the phones is here.

Um.

And so it's a smaller team to
handle the customer service side

than it is to do the sales side.

But the sales is a seasonal thing.

They're here during the summer months when
it's hot and there's a lot of bugs out.

They hit it hard.

Um, they make a lot of
sales, and then they're gone.

And the rest of the year it's, it's
all us, you know, here as, you know,

the office staff and the in-house team

Reed: Okay.

Hudson: that, I guess, did that
go along with your question?

Reed: yeah.

Yeah.

And know, and I, I find this really
interesting, and I think a lot

of people, maybe not in, in pest
or solar or security, would, um.

Uh, be interested in this and, you
know, in, in our part of the country

in Chicago, uh, where the weather's
pretty moderate generally, um, you

know, we don't get a ton of bugs.

And, um, funny enough, we did get, uh,
somebody knocking on our door one time

for pess control in the, in the 10
or so in years we've lived here and.

Um, sure enough, he was from a
Utah based, or Yeah, he was a

Utah based pest control company.

And it is interesting how that part
of the world is like the, the source

Hudson: Yeah, it's

Reed: all the,

Hudson: It's true,

Reed: the, the world's
door-to-door salesman.

Uh, you know,

Hudson: it's true.

We definitely get a lot
of guys from there, so,

Reed: yeah, yeah.

And I was, I, I grew up in
Utah and I was born in Caldwell

where your headquarters are.

So

Hudson: oh, there you go.

Reed: areas.

No, Uh, no shade intended.

Um,

Hudson: Yeah.

No, you're good.

Reed: So let's talk a little bit
about like, some of the hacks you use.

You, um, you know, you do this every

Hudson: Actually, can I, can I
actually jump into that real quick?

What, what?

Just to rewind a little bit, um.

There has been a unique set of challenges
that comes with doing the door to door.

That's perhaps it's a little bit
different than a lot of companies

that don't do door to door, right?

Traditionally digital marketing,
it's all about your online presence.

It's about your reputation, it's about
building, you know, uh, basically

just a name for yourself online,
um, which can be difficult anyway.

And, you know, you, you all, you
always get those people that don't

like your company that leave negative
reviews and stuff like that, but

people don't like solicitors.

At all.

Um, they hate 'em, you know,
and that's understandable.

My guys, you know, they're expected to
knock somewhere around 200 doors a day

and they, they talk to half of 'em.

They actually answer the door
and then they expect to get

a couple sales a day, right?

So two yeses out of a hundred
people that, you know, they know

or sometimes worse things than No.

Um, and, and consequently a lot of
people get really upset and there's a

lot of negative reviews posted about.

Salesman about solicitors,
about stuff like that.

Like, leave me alone.

And, you know, and, and
that's an understandable

frustration for a lot of people.

And so there's a significant amount
of, uh, I guess, negativity online that

you actually have to learn to combat
when it comes to a, uh, an industry

that you have solicitors out there.

Um, and so there's a significant amount of
efforts that we've had to learn as far as.

Increasing our, our reviews.

We've had to put special attention
into building really good

interaction with our customers
and reviews to the point we have.

We have processes that incentivize
our technicians, incentivize

our salesmen incentivize.

Um.

Even our office staff to
make good reviews happen.

And we even have, uh, a whole CRM and
everything that's dedicated to just

sending, and in fact we do this through
one of your guys' sister companies

approve, sends out a text message
asking for good reviews from our

customers that, that love our service.

And so we've had to do a significant
amount of those efforts to make

sure that our online presence
is, is, you know, keeping up with

the, the little bit of negativity
that comes from the fact that we.

That we market the way we do.

So, um, there has been a unique set of
challenges there that that has been,

um, good to learn how to overcome
that some companies might not have to

go through if they're not doing any
type of door-to-door solicitation, so.

Reed: No, that's, that's a great
insight and you know, reviews are super

valuable in any business and you, you.

Are already, like you said, you're
starting kind of behind because because

of just the, your, your required sales
process, you know, you've gotta, you've

gotta play catch up and so you, have had
to master that review process and, and

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: a lot of time and
effort into getting that

Hudson: Well, and we've done before we
found your guys' sister company approve.

We did, we poured so much efforts
into, uh, just trying to get more and

more good reviews, and you guys were a
godsend, a straight up miracle for us.

Um, the way you guys built out your, um.

And I'm sorry, I'm not
sure if you're trying to,

Reed: Yeah.

Hudson: um, spotlight, approve
right now or if it's mostly market

search and stuff, but, um, the way
you guys built it out is perfect.

It makes it super convenient for us.

It automatically sends the personalized
text message to the customers and it

has increased the amount of reviews
we got, like, like more than times

five and, and it was just fantastic.

So I love, I love that
you guys do what you do.

It's fantastic.

Reed: Well, and you know, to that point,
you know, whether you're using approved

software, which, uh, you know, we're
big fans of, or, um, you create in your

own CRM uh, a process, you know, it
needs to be automated and it needs to be

Hudson: Reactors.

Mm-hmm.

Reed: um, that's 1 0 1.

I'm sure you, you guys are at the 400
level on getting these positive reviews.

But, um, if you depend on your
own personal memory to remember to

send out a request for a review or.

You know, you've got the hope strategy
where like I, I'll just do a good job and,

and, um, I hope they leave me a review.

You know, people forget like
in five seconds after you leave

that, that they should do that.

And, um, so it is, it is like on you
as the, business leader, the bi, you

know, the business to those reviews,
you know, and they're, they're

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: from SEO and, and authority
and reputation to, past, so,

Hudson: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Sorry, and I didn't mean to
interrupt your other question.

We can

Reed: oh,

Hudson: move on to the next now

Reed: It's okay.

And actually I,

Hudson: I.

Reed: I think that's relevant because
we're talking about hacks and I, and

people don't often think of reviews
as a part of marketing, but, um, I.

You know, as you've described
it there, it's, it's, uh, both

brand and reputation management.

But, um, more and more people as a
part of their own process looking

for vendors, you know, they're,
they don't, they don't have maybe

personal, uh, relationships with you.

And so they, they want hear
some, uh, you know, positive.

Um, feedback before they,
they make a purchase.

Um, so, so

Hudson: Hundred percent.

Reed: marketing and, um, but,
but let's talk a little bit

more, let's go a little further.

You, as you've been doing this for
many, many years, um, do, can you

tell us a little bit about some,
like, unconventional things that

you may be doing, whether it's like
a, you know, a little tactic you've

discovered or, um, you know, gorilla
marketing, anything like that?

Hudson: Yeah, a hundred percent.

So I mean, there's a couple things
that we've done that are a little bit

more specific and I, I know there's
a lot of people in a lot of places

that have done different incentives.

For, um, you know, their
customers, for new people

coming on for, you know, things.

There's, there's
1,000,001 ideas out there.

Um, and just a couple of the ones that
we've liked to the point that they've

stuck, I'll just kind of mention a
couple, is that one of them, like

for customers specifically customer
referrals, a lot of our sales, a huge

chunk of our sales happened because
somebody told somebody about us.

You know, somebody.

Loves the service and told their
mom or their neighbor or you know,

somebody, um, which is fantastic.

And so we've tried to push
that by incentivizing our

customers to refer people.

So we have a, a gift card program.

You know, we give people Amazon gift cards
if they send someone our way and they sign

up for service, as soon as they get their
initial service, we call the person that.

Referred them and we just have a
personal, Hey, thank you so much.

I'm gonna send you this gift card.

You guys are awesome.

Just a little bit of
an incentive for that.

And we have that advertised on
our cards that we put on the

doors after we finish the service.

So everybody sees it and it's great.

It's one of those things that's
just a constant reminder to our

customers that, you know, maybe
bring us up, maybe spread the word.

Um, so that's one of the
things that's kind of stuck.

We do that.

Um, something for like new
customers out outside of our,

our existing customer base.

So.

People that have used our services
before, um, or, or lists we can buy

for people who have, you know, their
new homeowners or something like that.

Sending out voicemail campaigns.

Like I literally just
surprisingly successful.

It works.

Um, you know, I'm, I record
a little voicemail from me.

Hey, this is Hudson just calling
from Track record, pest Control.

You guys have used our services
before, or I saw that, you

know, you're a recent homeowner.

Um, we would just love to have you.

You know, use our services, wanted
to offer you guys a discount we're

doing for somebody in your area.

Right.

Come with just a little voicemail, um,
and then mass, send it out to that list.

Everybody gets the same voicemail.

It's, it sounds personal.

Um, you know, it just automatically
leaves the voicemail and they get it.

They're like, oh, interesting.

Pest control.

Somebody called me, they called back.

Hey, I talked to Hudson.

One of my sales guys pick up
like, oh yeah, Hudson told me to.

Yeah, he, he, he told me
you might be calling back.

Oh.

And then.

They sell it.

You know,

Reed: Awesome.

Hudson: was, that was kind of a little
bit of a hack that I saw more surprising

success for than I thought it would be.

A little bit more than, than
other, other things we've done.

So we do those sometimes.

Reed: That's great.

Hudson: Um.

For our existing customer base.

One of the things that helps us get
good reviews, um, is our newsletters.

We put out funny newsletters sometimes.

Some of 'em are just dumb.

Um, it doesn't have to be
like, oh, you know, here's a

technical thing about pests.

Sometimes it was like, uh, one of the
ones we did was like bug mythology

and we had it like all look like, you
know, Greek mythology or whatever.

But it was like, here's a funny
thing about pests that people often

think that isn't the case, you know?

Um.

So, you know, fun bug facts, some
things that are, you know, you obviously

want to theme it around pest control
a little bit, but it doesn't always

have to be oriented toward making a
new sale that helps with retention.

You know, it helps customers like
stay involved for them to get

something like that in their email.

And then it's also great for reviews
because you put the link at the

bottom like, Hey, you know, if you
like our services are like this

newsletter, leave us a review.

And we've gotten good reviews about people
being like, oh, I love the fun bug facts.

Great.

It's like, yeah.

Little things like that.

They're always fun to do.

Reed: And you, uh, these newsletters
are emailed newsletters, like digital

Hudson: Yep.

Yeah.

Digital email.

Yep.

Reed: Awesome.

Hudson: We've done
mailers and stuff before.

We haven't found a lot of success
in mailers, like sending stuff

to people, physical mailbox,
you know, everybody does it.

Everybody gets however many things
a week from random companies

trying to advertise something.

You know, it's, it's good to keep in
the loop, but I've just learned that

it's easier to send those to people
that have opted it and before, um, maybe

they're not using our services now, or
maybe they are using our services now.

You know, stay relevant in
their minds 'cause they've

had an experience with us, so.

Reed: Interesting.

Um, so, so let's talk a little bit about
like, you've identified so many different

sources of, of potential clients.

Um.

Which is great.

I maybe not every business has these
kinds of opportunities and I think

it's just because there's, in these
geographies you've picked, there's

near universal need for pest control

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: And, um, but I.

Let's talk a little bit about how you
keep everything straight, you know,

in, or organized in, in neat ways.

Like you, what if you had somebody
go door to door and, uh, like, you

know, the, the sales person had
a, a nice chat and they were like,

well, not, not now, maybe later.

Um, how do you like, make that work
with, like, can you coordinate that

they, like, get a reminder in a, in a

Hudson: I'm little.

Reed: or a call from your.

Uh, your call center, can you, can
you coordinate those kinds of things?

Hudson: Yeah.

So I mean, there's definitely a lot of
interaction that happens with customers

with our door to door salesman.

Reed: Mm-hmm.

Hudson: and they send, you know.

We do a lot of training for them, right?

They, we want them to
represent the company well.

We want them to, um, be honest and
forthright about how everything works.

Um, and they're, they're
really great people.

They're usually very personable.

It takes that kind of
person to be on the doors.

Um, and so they, you know, oftentimes
just start a good conversation.

And if they do, um, they're encouraged
to get the person's email, at least,

even if they're not interested right now,
it's like, Hey, could I at least, you

know, get your number, get your email.

Um, if they, if they can do that
and they can opt in, well then we

can, we can communicate with them.

Um, so that's one of the things
the door to door guys do.

Assuming that's the case.

Yeah, we have, I mean, we have drip
campaigns, you know, it's like,

Hey, thanks so much for, you know,
talk to our sales guy or whatever.

Like, we'd love to do service for you.

Um, let us know if you do see any
of those little ants pop up just

like your neighbors are seeing,
you know, something like that.

We do, we do different
automations in that sense.

Did that answer your question?

Reed: Yeah, and I basically, what
I, what I'm getting at is like, if

they're, you know, the drip campaign
concept I think is really important.

A lot of businesses don't, don't do that.

And, um, because you, you often
have quality interactions with

potential clients that, uh,
whether it's budget or, or.

Timing, like, you know, I just
happen to be just leaving the,

you know, going on vacation.

I, you know, I, and the, the follow up
is a little bit lacking, you know, or,

Hudson: Yeah, a

Reed: or

Hudson: percent.

Reed: a long time to decide, you know,
they, they're just, you know, you know,

I think we've got decision fatigue.

You know, we gotta, I.

Make so many decisions every
day, and they just, they just

wanna sit on it for a little bit.

Um, but the Nurture campaign, tell, tell
us a little bit more about, um, how you

Hudson: Or even.

Reed: nurture campaigns.

How you, how do you know that somebody's
worth putting into the nurture flow?

How, how do you

Hudson: Yeah.

Yeah, good question.

So if they're not specifically somebody
we never wanna talk to again, then

we assume they're worth talking to,

Reed: Uhhuh.

Hudson: know?

So I, if it's somebody that we've had a
super negative experience with, um, or

something like that, we have a little tag
in our system that we put as a Garbo, like

somebody we don't want to contact again.

It's a garbage lead.

Um, and so we, uh.

You know, we obviously don't contact
those people, but everybody else that's

ever opted in and we consider as,
you know, a possible client, somebody

that could, you know, want services,
somebody that might see ants this year.

Um, and so we, you know, we send
out frequent newsletters, um, to our

existing database as well as, uh,
people that have just opted in that

aren't current customers, where we send,
you know, those drip campaigns too.

And it's, it's really, you
know, sometimes it's an offer.

Sometimes it's a, you know,
Hey, here's some fun bug

information, um, nothing too pushy.

Just keep, keep them, keep
us in their minds, right?

Because there's a lot of companies
out there marketing our same product.

We got lots of competition.

Um, and so, you know, somebody
goes and knocks on their door and

if they, you know, maybe they use
this before, but maybe it's one of

our competitors knocking on their
door and they're there right then.

With a a deal.

And they're likely to do that
if they can't think of a reason

not to, and they have ants.

But if they got an email from
us the day before and they

looked at it and said, oh, hey.

Oh yeah, I remember Tri Guard.

They, oh, they're
offering a deal right now.

They see that the next day one of
our competitors knocks on their door.

Oh yeah, no, it's okay.

I actually have somebody, 'cause
that's in their mind, you know?

And then they call it later.

And so it's, it's a lot about just
staying relevant and being kept

in people's minds that we're here.

You know, pest control is a pain pill.

It's not one of those things that
people are very proud about when

they have, you know, a horrible
pest issue that needs taken care of.

Um, and so it's, you know, it's not
necessarily a social thing like, like

a lot of things that can be marketed.

Um, it's what, it's a pain pill.

It's something that people will need at
different times throughout their life.

And so just reminding them that
we're here for when that needs

to happen, that's the goal.

Reed: Yeah.

Well, well, that's, that's great.

And, and, Like you said, you, you have
a process that's consistent and you

put a lot of people in this process.

So, but

Hudson: Mm-hmm.

Reed: you know, with many things it's
a numbers game and you know, it's both

the number of touch points you have
and the number of people that you're,

Hudson: Mm-hmm.

Reed: So, um, that's.

That's fantastic.

Let's talk a little bit about
like key performance indicators

for the success of your business.

Um, are there, you know, two or three
that you really keep an eye on to monitor

the, the health of the business and
like, know, are we gonna have a good,

good season, good year, uh, you know,

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: even.

Hudson: Yeah, good question.

So it's a little bit different
for, depending on the, the

place that we're looking, right?

So I, um, if it's, if we're looking at
the door to door salesman, or even my

in-house salesman, but their personal
performance, we're like, we're watching

their conversion rate like a hawk.

Like how many people do you talk to
and how many are sold, you know, and

that tells us how good a salesman is.

I mean, if you talk to.

A million people only sell one.

You're a really bad salesman, you know?

But if you talk to 12 people
and you sell 10 of 'em, it's

like, wow, you're really good.

Um, and so conversion rate's
huge for the salesman.

Uh, additionally the
contract value, right?

Um.

We do give the, we have standard
pricing, but the salesmen do have

a little bit of the ability to
give discounts here and there.

Um, we encourage people to stick to
the standard pricing, but every once

in a while they're allowed to give a,
a discount and everything like that.

So, I mean, we, we watch that as well,
you know, when a salesman's able to get

a, a, a high value customer, somebody
that has a real need and he's able to

sell out at the reasonable price and
it looks good and we're making good

money off of it and everybody's happy.

Um.

Then that's what we look at as well, as
far as success for the salesman goes.

So that's, that's one thing
we look for the salesman side.

Um, for the marketing side, like from
my side, what I'm, what I'm doing, I'm

looking at the cost per acquisition,
like a hundred percent, right?

I mean, we do, I mean there's
obviously a lot of metrics involved.

There's cost per click, there's a lot of
different things that you pay for online.

But what I'm, when I'm thinking
how much money am I dumping into

this system and how many actual
customers am I getting out of it?

Right.

There's an industry standard.

Reed: Mm-hmm.

Hudson: how much do we want it to be,
right when we have a door-to-door salesman

go out, you know, we're expecting to
pay him quite a bit of commission on it

because that's the only money he makes.

And so the cost per acquisition for
door to door sales is significantly

higher than it can be if you're
doing it right online, right?

If I'm doing it right online, I can
figure out a system that, you know works

really well, and then it can just be
a, you know, a slot machine, put money

in it and get something out of it.

Um.

So we're, we're looking at that a lot too.

Uh, cost per acquisition and then, um, for
reputation for how our company's doing.

For our reputation online,
it's a hundred percent reviews.

What do we look like on our
reviews that tells us whether

or not we look good online?

Reed: Okay.

Hudson: those are probably
the biggest things I look at.

Reed: one, one of the things I wanted to
ask about cost per acquisition, that ties

back to our, uh, earlier chat about, um,
channels and, and how you prioritize it.

Fair to say that Google Ads has been
like your, know, best return on, on that

Hudson: Yeah, good question.

That's actually why we're
leaning into that more, right?

Because the amount of money that
we've ever poured into it has been

a good cost per acquisition, right?

It's not just 'cause it's like, oh,
we like Google more than others.

It's like, it's really, I mean,
you can, you can buy sales.

I.

Pretty easily.

But the question is,
is it, is it worth it?

You know?

And so cost bracketing tells you that,
and there's a lot of factors, right?

It's not just the cost.

It's not like, okay, well let's say to
get a qualified lead from Google, it's

gonna cost me 75 bucks, and let's say
from Angie's, it's gonna cost me 75 bucks.

Right?

Well, if the, the lead is a
little bit easier to sell on

Google, if the Google leads are
warmer, then I'm gonna be getting.

More of those sales, even though
they had the same cost per lead.

Right?

That doesn't necessarily
equate cost per acquisition.

Reed: Right.

Hudson: I'm able to sell 10 of the Google
ones, but only five of the Angie ones,

then it's, there's a disparity there.

And then additionally, the cost that
goes into it is, you know, the, the ad

that we created are, you know, our, our
marketers, but even what we're paying

the salesman who sells it, right?

That contributes to the
cost per acquisition.

So the question is, you take the,
you take all the money you spend, you

know, and you're gonna divide it by.

All the sales you got from that,
that tells you how much it cost.

Um, and that definitely guides
where we go a hundred percent.

Reed: So you, you, um, uh, just, just
curious, you know, like I, I, you

know, when you, when you've identified
that Google is, you know, the best

return, um, do you feel like you, I.

Have room to grow in there.

So because like in theory, if you
found that it's the lowest qua cost per

acquisition, you know, you could shift
more and more of your budget towards go,

you know, the most profitable channel.

Um, do you feel like
you've maxed that out yet?

Like, uh, in terms of

Hudson: Um, Nope.

We're hoping to max it out this year,

Reed: Okay.

Hudson: we've, we're
actually doing more of that.

Reed: like, starts leveling with the other

Hudson: Yeah, we're, yeah, exactly.

We're actually trying to, um, yeah,
we're leaning a ton into Google this

year, um, more than we ever have.

Um, simply because just looking at
the data from our last few years and

everything, it just shows that, you know,
the cost per acquisition for a lot of the

other lead sources isn't nearly as good.

And we historically haven't put.

Nearly as much into Google as
we probably should have been.

And so that's what we're
leaning into this year.

And so maybe we have another one of
these conversations at the end of the

year and I'll tell you, tell you how
it went when we put even more into it.

So

Reed: No, I'd be curious.

You know, and, and this is like, this is,
you know, real meat, meat and potatoes of

marketing is, is making decisions based
on the, the return you get on, on those,

Hudson: yeah, I.

Reed: And, um, you know,
really interesting.

And it's nice, it's probably nice
to be in a phase where you haven't

quite talked it off because that means
you obviously have room to grow and,

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: can, can do that.

Uh, there's gonna be some point where.

hit all the people that are searching
for pest control in this geography, and

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: more spend would just be, would
start lowering, or, I mean, start

increasing your cost per acquisition, so

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: yeah.

Hudson: Yeah.

And there's definitely a point
where you reach, you have to

have a good strategy on Google.

There's 1,000,001 ways
to market on Google.

There's a lot of different details
in the campaigns, how to focus

on keywords and all that stuff.

So there's, there's definitely gotta be
a good strategy there in order to make

that cost per acquisition worth it.

'cause you can, you can waste money
on Google too if you do it wrong.

Reed: Yeah.

Yeah.

Now you have a lot of human powered
channels, like for sales, you know, the,

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: um, you know, a big
part of your business.

And, um, ai, know, just to jump to
that topic is, uh, you know, people.

In many roles are, are concerned
about, you know, their job safety.

Um, and AI does have some capacity to
manage aspects of the sales process.

Um,

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: beyond that, even in,
in other aspects of marketing.

What, what do you think is, or, you know,
first, have you experimented with any use

of ai and what do you think about is the,

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: AI in, in your, uh,

Hudson: Yeah, that's,
that's a great question.

So, uh, we've done some stuff with,
uh, AI and other chat bots before,

uh, like we've, we've tested having a
chat bot on our website and everything

like that as, um, as well as, um, I.

You know, response to reviews and things
like that that we've gotten on on Google.

We've tried that before.

Um, the only thing that I, I'm hesitant
about it is there's a margin of

people that it really helps, right?

So when, when you consider, like there's
a significant amount of people out there

that need pest control, um, and let's say.

This amount of them are
a little bit antisocial.

They'd rather go on a website.

They'd rather fill out their information.

They'd rather click buy without ever
having to talk to somebody and then have

the guy show up later at the appointment
they scheduled and stuff like that.

It's like there's a lot of automation
that can be done that way, and there's

a margin that that really helps.

And so I, I'm, I'm totally behind that.

Um, I have found a lot of value
in still retaining a certain

amount of that face-to-face.

Like interaction with the customer, right?

Um, or phone to phone.

Right.

Um, one of the things I've noticed is when
we have paid into different lead sources

before, oftentimes the lead sources
where you're buying leads from, we'll

send the lead to five companies, right?

They had five people buy the
lead from them, and whoever calls

it first and sells 'em gets it.

Right.

Um, and so we've done, we've done
some automation with those, but we've

learned that a lot of companies lean
so much into the automation that

it's actually quite easy for one of
my guys if they get on the phone.

And have the personal conversation
with them to get the customer to

relate to us and then trust us
more than the other company because

there's that face, face interaction.

Right?

So take that with a
grain of salt because I.

Although that is valuable, there is
a significant amount of data entry.

There's a significant amount of system
processing as far as CRM integrations,

um, and you know, the general follow
up automation to start anyway that I.

That you will lose a lot of
customers if you don't have some

form of AI helping with that.

Right.

Um, I still do value at this juncture.

We'll see how it goes in the future.

At this juncture.

I do value having a little bit
of that face-to-face interaction.

And by the end of this sale we're,
they're talking to somebody.

You know, it's a lot of, a lot of
manual work and, you know, we pay, you

know, there's pros and cons to that.

We still have a lot of manual
things that happen, um, but.

It does build a lot of trust with our
customers, but that beginning stage, the

customer filling out their information
online and getting that confirmation

that we're about to reach out to them,
or even that first text message that's

just like, Hey, we do have your stuff.

My guy's gonna be
reaching out to you soon.

We found a lot of value in
those things, you know, in

those automations and those ai.

AI specifically.

One of the things that I have loved
it for is content creation, like

when it comes to digital marketing.

It's ridiculous.

I mean, it just used to be so hard to
like, I mean, you had to have a real

artist to help you make something, you
know, um, that you wanted to run as

an ad or to come up with good wording
for something you're trying to pose.

But AI is this great tool in those ways.

So I definitely, when I, when I look at
AI and the things I want it to do for

me, I'm looking at content creation.

I'm looking at system automations,
um, how I can make my systems

more smooth for even my.

My employees, you know, the people that
are, that are doing the work for me,

how can I make it smoother for them?

How can I cut out some of that, that
fluff, the stuff that, all the manual

stuff they have to do to make it a little
bit quicker, a little bit easier for them,

and just get them to spend as much time on
the phone as possible, talking to people,

having those, those face face interactions
or those voice to voice interactions.

So, does

Reed: Yeah,

Hudson: your question?

Reed: it does.

And you know, and

Hudson: Okay.

Reed: obviously like opinions vary
and on, on ai, you know, we're,

we're deeply immersed in it and, and
trying everything we can just to,

so we can be educated on the topic.

And, um, I.

Hudson: a hundred percent.

Reed: I generally agree with you.

You know, like you, you can't
go 100% AI on on any process.

You, you do need a human touch, um,
uh, really to be persuasive and, um,

you know, sales is so, so much about
connection and trust and, um, AI isn't

quite, know, it's not, hasn't crossed the

Hudson: at least at this juncture, I think
it's something that we should be putting

a ton of energy toward, figuring out.

'cause if you don't touch AI at all,
you're gonna be a miles and miles behind,

Reed: Yes.

Hudson: in three years from now.

So it's important to be, to get familiar
with, I'm not trying to dog on it.

Reed: Well, you know,
and I think you're right.

I, I think even if you aren't
ready, you know, you think your

business isn't ready for it or your,
your customers don't, don't like

it, you should still be using it.

And because it gets better every day,
you know, like you said, you with content

creation, you know, just a couple weeks
ago, the free version of Chat, GPT could,

can generate like production quality
images with the right prompts and, um.

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: You know, that's like,
that's a game changer and you know,

Hudson: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Reed: You know, some, a skill
that everybody needs to,

to have regardless of where

Hudson: Mm-hmm.

Reed: And, um, so Hudson, you know,
this has been a fantastic discussion

and, and lots of like, like real meat.

Like I said, you know, I, I, I feel
like people could learn a lot, whether

they're in home services or in other
industries, just with how you think

about, uh, your costs and your returns
on different channels and, and, uh.

You know, and I, I mean, I think,
uh, you know, I, I, I kind of know

the space a little bit, um, from
experience, but I, a lot of people that

I work with, this is totally foreign.

This the door to door stuff.

Um, you know, I was,

Hudson: One of the things that, oh, sorry.

Go tell your story.

Reed: say, you know, one day years
ago I was a Mormon missionary knocking

door to door, and I know how hard
that is and, um, you know, I, I like,

would never choose to do that again.

But, but you know, like it's, it works
and, uh, you know, it's, it's still a

channel for a lot of industries, so,

Hudson: Yeah.

No, a hundred percent.

I was just gonna say, one of the things
is, it's so funny about the industry

is, you know, it requires constant
adaptation to the point that I've

noticed that even the professionals.

Still sometimes don't
know what we're doing.

Right?

It's like, it's all about being able to
take the situation, recognize that it's

a constantly evolving market by even,
even socially and, and politically.

Laws change, advertising
rules, statutes, regulations.

You have to change things a lot.

And so a lot of it has
to do with number one.

I, I always say this to
people, it's just like.

Be a good guy, right?

Show up when you're supposed to show up,
be kind to people, have a good attitude.

That's one.

Obviously the biggest things, but then
just be willing to change and adapt.

Right?

And that's one of the biggest things.

That's why sometimes when I'm explaining
some of our strategy, it's like, well,

this is actually what we've done,
but this is now what we're doing.

You know, we're learning as we're going.

Um.

Because of how fast things change,
you have to be in that mindset, right?

You can, you can really kill it one
year and just be like the guy on top.

And then if you don't change your method
by the next year when things change,

you could be the guy on the bottom.

And that's just how it
works in the industry.

And so I.

It's important to think outside the
box and be constantly watching things.

Make sure you're networking, make
sure you're talking to people that,

that have tried different things and
brainstorm together, and that's why,

that's why we're willing to do this.

That's why I'm willing to be
on here and share some of this.

Just,

Reed: Yeah.

Hudson: you know, it's, it's helpful
to get the information out there

and it's helpful to, to learn it
from other people as well, so.

Reed: Well, well, thank you.

Those are great closing thoughts.

And, um, you know, Hudson, it's been a,
a real pleasure and, uh, you know, maybe

we could do this again in the future.

I, I think maybe we'd be interested
in hearing on, uh, you know,

how, how your efforts in, um,

Hudson: Yeah.

Reed: Google, uh, channel have, have gone.

And, um, but other than that, you've,
uh, given us a lot of gems of wisdom.

So thanks for, thanks for joining us.

Beautiful.

Hudson: Yeah.

Sounds good.

Thanks Reed.

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