Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Welcome to Inside Marketing
With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed: Hello and welcome to Inside
Marketing with Market Surge.

Today I'm joined by Dr.

Jeremy Foote.

Dr.

Jeremy Foote is an assistant professor
in the Brian Lamb School of Communication

at Purdue University and a core
member of the Community Data Science

Collective as a computational social
scientist, His research focuses on

the dynamics of online communities.

Exploring how they form work.

Grow and sustain cooperation.

Utilizing large scale data analysis,
simulations, and social network analysis.

Dr.

Foote investigates the factors that
influence collective behavior and

knowledge construction in digital spaces.

With a PhD in media technology and
Society from Northwestern University, Dr.

Foote has contributed to
understanding the interplay between

technology and social organization.

His work provides valuable insights
into how digital platforms can

foster meaningful collaboration
and community building.

and I know you as Jeremy, so I'm gonna
refer to you as Jeremy and, but, uh, I'm

really glad to have you on the podcast.

Thanks for joining.

Jeremy Foote: Hey, thanks, happy
to be here and I guess that's okay.

Reed: No, I appreciate it.

And, um, as, Jeremy and I have known
each other for over a decade now.

Maybe like 15 years.

And, um, Jeremy probably would love
a caveat that, he is not a business

marketer and, he's going to say that
will make his knowledge not applicable.

But I will argue with him and say that
I think it is extremely applicable.

the science of networks
and, social organization.

because we, in the sales world, in
the marketing world, we do need to

warm up our connections in order to do
business transactions, and build trust.

so, Jeremy, tell us a little
bit about your work and your

background, maybe at a high level.

what do you focus on and, what would
be a good background, any insights

in addition to what I shared.

Jeremy Foote: Yeah.

Thanks Reed.

So, yeah, so I'll start with that.

Like I am an academic, I am a nerd.

Like I am really interested
in understanding kinda the

theories and the concepts.

Uh, in fact, I worked for a little while
after my bachelor's degree for a startup.

I was a product manager.

I was bad at it.

I just didn't, I'm not, it's,
I'm much more comfortable, you

know, with my head in the clouds,
in the ivory tower as they say.

Um, and thinking about sort
of the theoretical versions.

that being said, I do care about the
practical implications of my work.

So I think your introduction was good.

I focused a lot of my research
on understanding online

collaboration, um, and.

Uh, so, so that's things like wikis, um,
as well as like new and emerging things.

A lot of my dissertation work was on
looking at like, what predicts that

a new wiki would be successful, which
sounds like it doesn't apply much to

business, but the argument at least
that I made, you know, I used a lot of.

Concepts from the organization.

Literature is that these
are small organizations.

Like when we think about
startups, it's really hard.

You never get the chance to look at a
startup when it's, you know, an idea.

But wiki's really, you get, we have
data from the very beginning, the

very first edit, and so we can kind
of track how they, how they, progress.

And so recently I've moved a little
bit more to online communities.

Uh, Reddit in particular is
where a lot of my work is.

Um, and I've been doing some stuff with
ai, like looking at how AI might help to,

for example, help people who have behaved
badly on Reddit, uh, to think about and

reflect on their behavior, et cetera.

Um, so some stuff in kind of moderation
and some stuff in AI simulations.

and then a lot on sort of, how
people perceive their online world

and, um, and interact with it.

Reed: That.

Okay.

It's super interesting and, and I think
we will touch on many of those points

in as, as we go uh, for context, one
approach that many businesses take.

They try to construct a community
that's around their business service

or their, uh, business offering.

Now, an example, uh, my wife Liz,
who runs a photography studio, she

has a very active Facebook group.

called the VIP group for
Empowered Women of Chicago.

And, uh, in that group, she posts, uh,
thought sparking conversation questions.

She interviews other entrepreneurs
in the group and, uh, and whatnot.

And, uh, you know, I think for
her own fulfillment, I think she

really enjoys the engagement.

But it also has been a, a channel.

To, so she's built some trust and
brought people in for photo shoots

that only knew her from the group.

And, um, so, you know, just giving
that as context is why a business

might care about community building.

tell us a little bit about like these
successful online communities, how they

have grown and like, how, how is it,
how's one successful others are not.

What, what, what do you observe that are
some of the commonalities between those?

Jeremy Foote: Yeah, it's a good question.

I think, maybe an important point is that
the people have the, sometimes they call

it uses and gratifications theory, like
for any technology including going on the

internet, people sort of often have in
mind the things they want to get from it.

And the different communities
are good for different things.

And so a lot of the communities I've
studied are really about conversation.

Sharing things like on Reddit and are less
focused on business things in particular.

And I guess, one of the important things
we found for something being successful

is just having someone, a founder
especially who is committed to it.

one of the universal laws of online
collaboration is that there's almost

always this kind of really steep drop
off in participation for any group, that

there are many people who participate.

Sometimes we might call them
lurkers, or even among those who

participate, participate peripherally.

They will make one comment
and then never be seen again.

while there are a few people
who participate a lot, and

It's kind of an iron law.

Wherever you look, you see that from
very small communities to very big ones.

And so having someone who's at kind of
that far end who's willing to kind of

create content and create engagement,
which it sounds like Liz does, is

really important for sustaining the
group and kind of creating a, critical

mass of people that can continue it.

Reed: Okay, so you touched on some
interesting things and, um, by the

way, I think like a business could
potentially start a subreddit, um, you

know, that's adjacent to their business.

Now the founder being super
active, um, does it matter?

I mean, I'm gonna assume that if they
come in with, an agenda, like if they

come in saying, you know, this is
a subreddit all about my business.

I mean, it seems kind of strange that I,
I don't know, the expectation doesn't seem

to, you know, get a lot of engagement.

Jeremy Foote: I mean, there are
risks, and maybe that's a larger point

that's worth considering, is that like
authenticity is really important and,

um, and like, maybe like there are risks.

So I'll give an example.

There are few subreddits and, and again,
I wish I had the details of an example,

but I know of a few contexts where a
subreddit is sort of, there's corporate

people who are running the subreddit
and are, you know, eliminating all of

the negative things that people say
and just really being, you know, heavy

handed in the way they're moderating it.

And often what will happen instead
is that people will move the

conversation somewhere else, right?

So instead of you getting
the chance to, um, you know.

To have a resource.

Now all the users are, you know,
on a different subreddit where you

are no longer the moderator and
you can't control the conversation.

I think that that is an important,
difficult thing for people.

But it's that, that if you want to
have online communities, you have

to let go of a lot of control.

Um, that's one thing that
people really dislike.

I mean, obviously there's,
there's some types of, um.

A thing, you know, don't allow people to,
you know, use profanity or whatever rules

you have, but rules that are like, you
can only say nice things about my company

are ones that will drive people away.

and I think that often engaging,
like being willing to engage, in good

faith and et cetera are the things
that kind of can make this work.

And being like heavy handed and
trying to remove criticism is

something that will often backfire.

Reed: Yeah.

And you know, that makes me think
even about like ads I see on, um, you

know, social media as I'm scrolling
through and the comment section

often will be like, you know, so it's
like talking about like, uh, auto.

Hair place or something, and then it's got
a spokeswoman, and then all the comments

are, what's her at, you know, and,
rather than, you know, anything relevant.

So it prob, I'm sure there's a fine
line to, uh, you know, handling this.

And so you, you have like rules of
behavior, but not necessarily just

blanket, eliminate all negativity.

Jeremy Foote: Yeah, I think that's right.

and some of this is like figuring
out probab, I mean, again, this is

really just speaking out of nowhere.

'cause I've, you know, from a business
perspective, I just haven't thought

about it from that perspective before.

Reed: Uhhuh.

Jeremy Foote: but like, my
guess is, you know, thinking

about why people are coming, I.

Um, and what you can offer.

And so, you know, often people come to
Reddit for example, looking for expertise

and trying to answer their questions.

And so, you know, if you can be a source
of expertise like that can be helpful.

Um, yeah.

Reed: What about, okay, so what
about if there's a community

you're trying to build?

would you want to allow
competing experts into that

space that might have a different
perspective or a different motive?

how would you handle that?

I think a business owner
could really deal with that.

Like a competitor gets in there, and
they'll start promoting their business.

how do you think that

Jeremy Foote: That is
a fantastic question.

my colleague Nate, and some folks
that he's worked with, studied

subreddits, and the ways that they
compete or not with each other.

And in as far as attention goes, there's
actually very little competition.

And in fact, it's sort of like a rising
tide lifts all ships, you know, if

there's more attention to this topic
then All of the subreddits on that

topic get more attention and engagement.

and so from that perspective, someone
else creating another subreddit or

another community that's similar,
your competitors even can create

another community may actually be
beneficial for you because it might

raise interest in the topic at large.

Reed: Okay.

So that, that's, uh, really fascinating
and it takes me to another question.

So these platforms, they have algorithms
and they make decisions about what

content gets promoted, uh, and what is,
suppressed or ignored So, you know, you

look at, I mean, I, obviously don't want
to go down the politics route, but it's

clear that the platforms do influence what
political speech gets, promoted or not.

but like in a business context, it's
like, I'm not sure how they handle

that, but also are there general
principles for considering an algorithm.

Like, um, maybe should I make
a decision of whether I should

try to build a community on
Reddit, on YouTube, or, Facebook?

what kinds of considerations would
you, incorporate in that thought

Jeremy Foote: Yeah, I mean, I haven't
thought too much about this, but, the one

thing that comes to mind is that like many
aspects of the social world, there are,

rich get richer effects in social media.

one, Consistent idea is that a lot
of what becomes successful is luck.

there's a great book, Duncan
Watts, sociologist mathematician

Turns sociologist, uh, wrote a
called, everything Is Obvious

once You know the Answer.

in that book argues that a lot of
attention in the world is really.

Self-referential something gets attention.

And then because it already is somewhat
popular, it becomes more popular and

more popular that's one explanation for
why there's a sort of huge distribution

that most just like most people do,
very little in a given community.

Most communities, most
subres are very small.

They will have one or two comments
a month while some, there's kind of

a big middle, but then it's a really
steep drop off and then a long tail

where there are a few subres that have.

Hundreds of thousands,
millions of comments per month.

and so attention works sort of like
this, and one explanation for that

is this rich get richer effect.

Initially things are about equal, and
for whatever reason, including luck,

some things become a little more popular.

They therefore get a little more
exposure and become even more popular.

one approach, and again, this is,
not based in much else other than

intuition, is that you might try
different things that if YouTube.

Starts working out and you can sort of
build a following, it's actually more

important where you have a following.

My guess is than it would be what the
algorithms that are being used on that

site, whether they align particularly.

So if you have some skills that make
you think that you'd be good at YouTube

or good at Reddit or good at Facebook
or whatever, or even an initial.

small following that you think you could
leverage, often that initial kind of

bootstrap, can build critical mass and put
you into kind of a positive feedback loop.

Reed: Okay.

And, you know, another thing
that I might, say as a takeaway

from what you just described is.

if the rich get richer, maybe it's helpful
to piggyback on an already popular trend.

Liz's group, which is.

empowered women.

So she, you know, she's got a
region, there's obviously a lot of

people in Chicago, a lot of women in
Chicago empowered women, you know,

kind of brings in like a feminist,
female empowerment theme, which is

appealing it's almost like, she.

latched her business onto some
already very popular trends.

I mean, I don't know the statistics, but
I imagine that women are pretty active

users, compared to men on, Facebook.

And so there's a few
things incorporated there.

rather than trying to start a trend,
she associated herself with it.

Jeremy Foote: Yeah, I think that
makes intuitive sense to me.

I think that's often a good approach.

Reed: Okay.

And so like, you know, say like
the subreddits, like you don't

necessarily have to say like, oh,
that subreddit already exists.

You're like, well that popular subreddit
means that there's opportunity.

Okay.

That, that's very helpful.

Um, I.

Now, I don't know if you're working at
the, you know, the science level, but

have you, do you have any observations
or any thoughts on, you know, companies

that are trying to create community,
um, and, uh, you know, are there any

common mistakes or common, you've
touched on this a little bit, like,

you know, like the sincerity versus the
being fake, but, um, is there anything

that comes to mind that is just like.

Um, just doesn't work
when a company tries this.

Jeremy Foote: I mean, I think in
general, at least in most online

communities, people don't want.

To feel like, like they, it, people
often want community identity, a

group identity, and that's often,
there are exceptions to this, but

that's often independent of the brand.

Um, even if you are, you know, part
of r slash Apple, which is, you know,

I think that's what it's called.

I'm actually, you know, some,
some community that's on Reddit

that is centered around a product.

The expectation is that it
is not people who work at the

company who run the sub Reddit.

They ex, you know, you don't come
there for information from the company.

You come to talk about the product
that you love or hate or whatever.

Um, and so I think, um.

Heavy handedness is off like, like
letting, maybe that's a, a good

approach is like, if you're big enough
that there are conversations about

your brand or communities, about your
brand, then listening is probably the

best thing you can learn from them.

You know, identifying trends,
identifying issues, et cetera is

probably the best thing, like driving.

Uh, driving the conversation is
probably difficult and may backfire

more often than it's helpful.

Reed: You know, um, I'll, I'll
just share an example as you were

talking that came to mind that,
um, so I used to live in Austin and

I'd come into the Austin Airport.

I never actually went
to these events, but I.

Um, I was aware of this, uh,
maybe annual event that was being

hosted in Austin by Red Bull.

It was this like flood tag thing.

I think that's what it was called,
but people would construct, um,

flying machines that didn't fly and

Jeremy Foote: I've seen videos of this.

Reed: you seen this?

they'd like, push him off a high
dive and they'd basically, it was.

But there'd be like thousands of people in
watching this and like inextricably linked

to Red Bull, the drink, the energy drink.

And um, just, I mean it's like
very fascinating videos to

watch and you can't avoid it.

Um, how would you rate that
as like a community building?

Exercise and like, is, is that
the, is that the same thing?

Do you see what I'm saying?

Like, uh, I don't know.

Is that just totally a different category?

Jeremy Foote: Yeah.

No, I don't know.

I mean it, I think it's the same
in the sense there's, so one of

the things that we've found about.

how people think about online
communities is that they don't have

diadic relationships generally.

Di meaning like, it's not, they aren't
there to hang out with their friends and

it's like, here's my friend, person X and
person Y and they're, I know they're in

this room and we hang out together and
talk, um, even in quite small communities.

So we, we interviewed people
who participated in quite small

Reddits, you know, a hundred or 500
active people that participated.

Even there, it was really more
about like, these are my people.

This is my group.

I am like these people.

And so that's why people join
and participate in them because

it's sort of a group identity.

and so in that sense, I think the Red
Bull, you know, having a brand identity,

I think Duolingo, the language learning
app also does it, it's like something

that's memorable and it's sort of like,
oh yeah, that's, that's like my people.

I get that.

I think that can be useful.

I mean, obviously also has
the potential to backfire.

I'm sure that Duolingo is
off-putting to some people, you

know, but maybe that's, memorable.

This is, is worth it.

I think it could build community.

I'm sure there's a community.

On Reddit about Duolingo and kind of
the crazy things that they do as a

brand and the people talking about
it, it gets engagement in that way.

Reed: Okay, so if you
were thinking through.

Now level of like, effort required
of a community participant.

Um, so for instance, if you had a forum
that required a lot of reading, like very

lengthy reading, to, to like understand
and participate, I guess the balance

is usually like the more in upfront
investment to be able to participate.

Like the more I'm likely to come
back tomorrow and the next day, like

if I've got some, skin in the game.

and then like, you know, say like the Red
Bull situation, those guys like actually

constructed a vehicle that was, You
know, like they put some effort into it.

They put a few weekends in.

Um, what would you say is like the
balance or the equation between effort

and, and engagement required of the

Jeremy Foote: this is a
fantastic question, Reed.

I think that the lesson here is that even
low barriers online can be big barriers.

in general there's sort of, you know,
if, you know the 80 20 rule from,

lots of different things, 80% of the
problems come from 20% of the customers

or whatever it is, online, that's
even more skewed I've talked about

this a little bit, but, 90% of people.

On a given subreddit or
whatever are lurkers, they

will never, ever post anything.

The 9% will post something like once in a
while and 1% are sort of the power users.

and so giving ways for people
to participate, very low

effort is, really important.

I mean, depending on the context,
like whether or not it makes sense to,

Whether it always works this way, but
it's typically you want a pathway for

people to move from the lurker to the
semi engaged person, to the power user.

and cutting off people
at any point is risky.

And so I think that, the idea of paywalls,
try and capture this a little bit, right?

That you get so many reads for free
and that captures all of the lurkers

who are only gonna read one article
anyway, and they still at least

see your ads or, you know, you get
a little bit of benefit from them.

Uh, but the power users, they're willing
to pay, they really want your content.

And so figuring out how to, uh, I,
I think maybe the, the principle

as well, and again, there's a
little, it's hard to measure this

empirically, but there's some.

Empirical and theoretical work that shows
that there are people that move from

sort of the lurker into the power user.

And in many cases you have to sort
of learn, you know, you're learning

about the community, you lurk because
you're kind of figuring things out.

Um, and so, uh, and so giving away
for people to do that is, uh, is

I think, uh, really important.

There's one other thing.

I can't remember what I was thinking, but
if it comes back to me, I'll let you know.

Reed: No, that's fine.

And, um, do you think a community,
so there are low, very low

barrier to entry options where
businesses may think they're.

Community building, like they're
engaging in this activity.

And so that would be the instance
of creating a social media profile,

free social media profile that all it
requires is somebody to have the right

URL or to click follow or like, and
um, they, you know, they, they want

engagement, they want, they'll post
content like, but, and they'll hope for

comments and likes on their own posts.

is that community or is that like
you, I mean, is it, is that even,

like, can you even get a following?

Like, are the platforms gonna
allow that or does it have to be

sectioned off as like, I've got
this LinkedIn group, I've got this

Facebook group, or this subreddit.

Like, um, does that

Jeremy Foote: Yes, it
definitely does make sense.

there is a gray area both.

I mean at least, you know, academically,
uh, people think it, like what is the line

around what counts as an online community?

So some people have argued, for example,
that um, you know, black Twitter is a

community, it's kind of the same people.

They're hashtags that sort of organize it.

And it's, I mean, the
lines are just fuzzier.

The lines always.

And maybe this is one of the, I don't
know how useful this is for, for sales

folks, but the lines around any community,
this is sort of a defining feature.

The lines around membership
are really fluid.

You know, if you ask who are the
employees of a company, we can, you

can come up with a list and that list
would be agreed to by, you know, most.

People, you know, who work at the company,
who are the members of a subreddit.

It's just like, do we encount
the people who are here every

day, but they never comment?

Do you have to say so many things?

And so it's really fluid.

People are moving in and out.

and so both within even those
more, Well-defined communities.

It's hard to say who's in and who's out.

And then whether or not something
else count as a community,

in some important ways.

I think it does.

I think that there's this other
idea, again, I don't know how useful

it is for sales, um, but that, uh,
now I've forgotten the name of it,

basically, that people build, uh.

A fake relationship with, with
kind of especially internet.

Uh, you know, if you think about
influencers, you know, many of them

sort of intentionally promote this idea
that they are your friend, even though

it's kind of a one way friendship.

Um, and so there is community.

Like these are people who feel
like they have a relationship

with, with people, um, and, uh.

And so in that sense, it's community.

There's identity that both
that's, that's connected to it.

Like I think those are, and then
identity is really motivating.

Um, yeah.

I need, what is the, I
need to look that up.

Reed.

What is the name?

This

Reed: Not to

Jeremy Foote: concept, all right.

Reed: and it's fine.

Jeremy Foote: No, I didn't
even, I, it's bugging me now.

I have a student who's like writing a
paper about it and it's just escaped me.

Uh.

Reed: well maybe while you're thinking,
um, I mean you're, you're raising so

many interesting points and, and, um,
it's just like my, my brain is spinning.

I.

Okay, so first of all, let me, let me
ask, do you think societally, and let's,

maybe let's just keep it to like the
us, are people craving more community,

more communities to be a part of
deeper engagements with the community?

Or are they, um, kind of treasuring
like independence and kind of like more

casual relationships where they kind of
drop in and out, like the lurker style?

Like do you have a, an opinion on

Jeremy Foote: Yeah, so this is,
we should definitely be asking

sociologists about this, um,

Reed: Okay,

Jeremy Foote: demographers
or something like that.

But, uh, but yeah, so there's a famous
book that's, I mean, it's gotta be 20

ish years old now called Bowling Alone.

Maybe it must be even older than that,
but, Robert Putnam is the, this famous

sociologist who looked at the decline
of things like bowling leagues, things

where people are kind of together doing
things together and has argued that

we have been losing social capital.

there is some research again.

Far afield from mine.

I only know about it tangentially.

but that shows that people have fewer
close friends now than they did, that

they spend less time with their friends.

I think that people want friendship.

They want connection.

and I think, there's increasing
evidence that, online communities.

can be helpful, they can be very helpful.

I think there have been lots of
benefits, but they don't produce

that kind of deep connection.

and that they may in fact substitute
for it, in ways that, people don't like

in the end and are not happy about.

Reed: Interesting.

Well totally disregard this.

Business marketers, all you heard
was community, community, community.

Go for it.

um.

Okay, so another, you know,
keep looking for that.

But, big topic of this podcast
that inevitably comes up is ai.

And obviously AI affects these
online communities tremendously.

it affects marketers tremendously.

And so we're all using it.

We're all, experimenting with it.

We're all kind of watching to see
what's next and how it's going to

affect our employment or how we interact
with information I have used AI to

generate content over the last few
years, and the quality has increased

tremendously, and in some cases it's
totally indiscernible from, very

high quality human generated content.

And so content generation is
a part of community building.

you're promoting opinions or thoughts.

And then, there's also AI has the
ability to converse and interact.

do you think the fact that that
technology exists, and we know it's

in our forums, we know it's, hitting
us many directions, how is that gonna

affect community building in the future?

Jeremy Foote: Yeah, great question.

So I found the term parasocial

Reed: Okay,

Jeremy Foote: I don't know how you'll
splice this in Diana, if you ever see

this, my student I'm working with,
I'm sorry for forgetting anyway.

Uh, so, uh, to go back to the
question of ai, I go back and

forth about what's gonna happen.

I think there's some catastrophic type,
outcomes, like not catastrophic in the big

C, catastrophic for Reddit, for example.

Um, I mean, there is already a crazy
amount of AI generated content, you

know, as I look around at Reddit
and maybe the flip side is just

knowing how good AI is, makes people.

Incredulous about everything.

Um, and so, you know, every post that's
up, people are now investigating.

Like, is this ai?

I don't know if it is, you
know, the comments as well.

Like, it's easy to kind of just accuse
someone or something of being ai.

Um, and I think that is, gonna be a
big problem because, you know, one

of the things people come for is.

Authenticity is expertise.

And if you can't trust that you're
getting either of those things from a

community, Then maybe, why don't you just
ask yourself, you know, like, I didn't

come to Reddit just to get answers.

Uh, you know, I could do that.

Um, and so I think it's, um, yeah,
I, I think it's, uh, it's dangerous,

um, uh, for, for communities.

And I don't know what the, you
know, final state is gonna be.

You know, there are some markers now,
you know, for example, one of the

nice things about the transparency
of online community is like Reddit.

Or Facebook is that you can
sort of see someone's history.

You can look at what they've done in
the past, and there's some mark, right,

that this is not someone who posts every
five minutes across 500 different types.

You know, it's not a bot.

And so there's some things like that,
but even those are not foolproof.

And so, yeah, I don't know.

Reed: Yeah.

Well, it's interesting too, you know,
I, I think a lot of people, you know,

I've used Reddit and I think, um,
whenever I see a post that looked a

little bit business promotional, I
would go in their history and see like,

is this something they're posting to?

50 different Reddits.

And, and so like, it just adds like
another dimension that we want to check

the history and say like, is, is this
person getting flagged for, for, uh,

you know, generating fake content?

And, I, um.

I mean, I think clearly the quality is
gonna continue to improve and, um, I, I

mean, may, maybe just speculating, maybe
that does drive people to more back to the

bowling leagues, back to the face-to-face
events or, or, uh, or community

meetings, you know, things like that.

You know, like I, who knows,
you know, that's kind of

Jeremy Foote: Yes, that's, I mean, that's
the hope is that, we will figure it out.

And, uh, you know, I'm,
an undying optimist.

I just can't help myself.

I think that we will figure some
things out, but at least in the

near term, it's hard to think of.

Uh, you know, I think AI is amazing.

I think it does many
things that are great.

It's hard to think of ways that it's gonna
be a net positive for online communities.

Reed: Interesting.

Okay.

So like, you know, we'll wrap here.

Um, but I would like to
just ask one final question.

considering, the potential of
AI to really disrupt a lot of,

what we know about communities.

do you think that this is a
worthwhile activity, for a business

to build a community for, the
purpose of a business to grow?

do you think that is a worthwhile
activity worth the effort potentially?

Jeremy Foote: Um, yeah, I mean, again,
as someone that knows almost nothing

about it, like there's, lots of the
sides of the costs and things like that

that I just, um, that I'm not sure.

but yes, I mean, I think.

People talk online about the products
and services that they use, and at least

knowing where those conversations are
happening, being a part of them when

appropriate, um, I think is valuable.

Um, I think, uh.

So, I mean, maybe that's the
part where it said at least

be a lurker, at least observe.

I think it's like really
low cost and easy.

In fact, there are lots of tools
that you can set up that will help

you do keyword searches across
lots of social media, et cetera.

Um, and I think that it's a great, easy,
cheap way to listen to customers or your

competitors' customers or whatever, right?

Um, I think that being involved
in communities is great.

Um.

Whether and in which ways it makes sense
to post or to create your own communities.

Um, I think is a, there's a
little, it's a little fuzzier.

I think it's always a good idea to
listen and it's easier to listen, uh,

and to learn than you probably think.

Um, I think it's easy to
mess up and create like bad.

Outcomes when you're
trying to manage things.

I think that, I mean, maybe the one
exception is that if you have the

bandwidth to do it, you know, something
like a, an explicit community for

like a help community, for example, it
seems like that's almost always great.

People know what they're getting,
they know where to go for it.

but if you were sort of, kind of
subtly, like you started, I don't

know, let's say you're selling.

beans and you start a subreddit about
pinto beans and you're subtly trying

to control the conversation and remove
everything from your competitors.

I think that is more likely to
backfire, than to be helpful.

Reed: Okay.

that is great insight.

And, I mean, pointed out something
we probably should have been

discussing all along is the listening
in the community and, you know,

using that data to incorporate
in your product or your service.

No, that's tremendous.

Well, Jeremy, where can people, if they'd
like to follow, learn more about your

research and, you know, places to find

Jeremy Foote: Yeah.

So, I mean, I studied social media.

I'm on them.

I have a website, jeremy d Foote.com.

Uh, I'm on maybe Blue Sky the most,
uh, these days, but, uh, I don't know.

I'm an academic.

What I really want is
people to cite my papers.

but no, I mean, yeah, if
people, want to get in touch

with me, I'd be, happy to talk.

Reed: Well, wonderful.

Well, I will, um, you know, we'll, we'll
look forward to following your research.

I think you've, um, summed up some
tremendous insights for marketers and,

um, I mean, I learned a lot today,
so thank you very much for joining

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