Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Welcome to Inside Marketing
With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed: Hello, today on Inside
Marketing with Market Surge.

We're diving into the world of payments,
but not in the way you're used to.

Our guest is Sam Rockwood, founder of
Woods, A platform that's transforming

the way dental offices and insurers
manage the complex, often chaotic process

of collecting and sending payments.

Sam brings a unique mix of operational
savvy and entrepreneurial grit to a

niche that desperately needs innovation.

From manually, invoicing insurers
to compliance headaches, woods

is helping service businesses
like dental offices automate with

confidence and get paid faster
without sacrificing security or trust.

We'll talk about Sam's
journey turning a problem.

He saw up close into a scalable product,
what it takes to market a solution

in a deeply traditional industry.

And even touch a little bit on ai, and
how that might shape the world, ahead.

Whether you're a founder, marketer, or
just someone tired of chasing payments,

this episode has something for you.

Welcome, Sam.

sam: Great to be here.

Reed: Yeah, well, and then full
disclosure, uh, Sam and I knew each

other before this podcast and, uh,
actually have known each other Since

college and, uh, but I will not
compromise my journalistic integrity.

We're going to do a hard
hitting interview here.

sam: No,

Reed: Uh.

sam: It's all good.

Reed: Yeah.

No,

sam: it's been great.

Reed: no.

We're in the no spin zone.

That's, uh, that's how it's gonna go.

well, Sam, tell us a little bit about
your background, uh, and then if you can

tell us to how that led you to creating
Woods and, uh, what sparked the idea?

sam: great.

So I actually started my journey as an
actuary for various insurance companies.

I always had a knack for mathematics.

In college that led me to the actuarial
route and became a credentialed actuary

and, worked for Blue Shield, Delta Dental.

that was around 12 years,
how I started my career.

Then in 2019, I took a slight
turn where I, joined a tech

company out of New York and.

Was one of the first 12, employees and
was able to see firsthand a lot of just

building things from the ground up.

very familiar with, product side
of building applications as well

as payments and, the various inner
workings of how, bank transactions

work and so forth in this tech company.

it was a great experience and led
me to, explore my own journey more

and, what I want to do from there.

after working there for about five
years, I digging more into this odd,

concept, this odd idea that I came
across it's 70 to 80% of the payments

today from dental insurance companies
to dental offices sent in the mail.

that struck me as very odd and
I, started digging into it.

I, as I research more and more realized,
you know what, there's, a way we can help

dental offices Get paid faster and more
securely, and that's what started Woods.

Reed: Fantastic.

Well, so you saw firsthand this
problem from past experience.

I mean, you've worked on the,
uh, actuarial side and you've,

um, you worked in payments tech.

When you first saw the problem, did you
immediately think that this could be

a business, or do you think that this
was something that was, uh, you know,

something that would resolve itself?

Eventually?

sam: Yeah.

You know, honestly, it was kind
of just like this curiosity At

first it was like, wow, that

Reed: I.

sam: very odd.

And it was kinda like the side project
I was doing at the time to dig into it.

I mean, I had a lot of context.

Uh, a lot of friends still in insurance, I
would pick their brain about, Hey, why is

it that you're still paying with checks?

I to a lot of friends in the dental
industry trying to learn about it.

And, um, yeah.

It wasn't something that immediately,
like the idea came, it was just like,

I dunno, it's just natural curiosity.

I think that that kind of
made me dig into it more.

Reed: Well, and you've explained this
to me several times, but uh, maybe

just for the audience, tell us a
little bit about like the pain here

and maybe the difference between.

How a medical office gets paid by an
insurer and a dental office gets paid

by an insurer, you know, and why that
process might be a little broken.

sam: Sure.

So there actually is a.

Reed: I.

sam: A reputable consulting firm, uh,
CAQH, that does an annual study of all

of the communications between insurance
companies and the providers, whether

they're dental or medical providers like
the dentists and the physicians these

communications, they measure how many
of them, or what percentage of them are

electronic versus manual as they call it.

And so this is, I mean, I
can imagine there's a lot of.

Different reasons and ways that
the insurance company has to

communicate with the providers.

And one of the sections is the payment.

How is the payment sent?

And it shows in their study that
for medical, for last several

years, it's in the 70 to 80% of
the time, payments are electronic.

But for dental it's in this 20% range.

And more recently has
barely break the 30% range.

and so.

This was, uh, that, that's kind of what,
started the journey or the project.

and what I did was kind of, I think what
I would recommend to any entrepreneur

who is digging into a problem is
I just started talking to a lot of

people and I actually, talked to a lot
of, dental offices, friends that I.

Had that worked in dental industry.

But then I also, I'm an
actuary, I just wanted data.

I wanted data to find out, okay,
what is really going on here?

Because yeah, you talk to one or
two people, you get their opinion.

Well, what I actually ended up doing was
I started cold calling dental offices,

and I would just call them and ask to
talk to their insurance coordinator

or whoever works with the insurance.

And they were very nice because
these insurance coordinators don't

usually get, somebody that wants
to talk about what they do all day.

But I basically called 'em up
and said, Hey, can you tell

me how do you get paid today?

And, basically what I asked was,
do you get paid with checks with

these virtual credit cards or are
they, electronic based payments?

they would tell me, and then I'd
ask 'em, well, okay, why don't you

get paid electronically more often?

and I gathered all this, I talked
to 30 or more dental offices, and

what it came down to was that most
of the dental offices recognize that

getting paid electronically is better.

and most of them said, yeah, we
like it to get paid that way, They

said the reason that they weren't
getting paid more electronically is

either because took a long time to
figure out how to get it set up, or

they didn't think that the insurance
company even offered that as an option.

Um, or they also had this misconception
that it was going to, be charging 'em

fees if they got paid electronically.

Um, and then the other, the final
piece, I gotta say, I guess I would

say as far as the pain point for
dental offices was when they get

paid electronically, then are missing
what's called their remittance advice.

so.

Yeah, every time they get paid
from insurance, then you get this

explanation of benefits, which is
basically a receipt saying, Hey,

here's what we're paying you for.

You did these services for
John and Tim and so forth.

they lay out everything
that they're paying you for.

Obviously the dental office needs to have
that so that they can verify that they,

the patient correctly and everything.

Well, these explanation
of benefits or EOBs.

come with a check in the mail and when
they get paid electronically, then

they don't come in the mail anymore.

And so that was one of the last pieces
of the puzzle so to speak, was that,

these dental offices, need that receipt,
the remittance advice and they weren't

able to get it very easily when they
switched to electronic payments.

So that's kind of what spurred this idea
of, If we could solve that for them,

number one, we could get them enrolled
easily in getting paid electronically, but

then number two, get the remittance advice
in a place for them to access it easily.

Then it would break down these
barriers more as far as the need or

the desire to get paid electronically.

Reed: You know, that's a great,
uh, great walkthrough of, of like

a healthy entrepreneurial process.

I think too often people
start with like, I.

Here's a job I want to do, or here's
a skill I have, or, um, you know, and

they build a business around that rather
than, uh, you know, you've identified a

problem or a pain in a, like an industry.

You know, I think we were talking early
on and I was like, I loved hearing about

this idea because it's close to the money,
you know, and it's like when you get

close to the money, you know, you think
like a PayPal or, you know, people in

the financial services sector, you know,
it, it can be scaled really quickly.

It can be very profitable and, you
know, great, great business to be in.

But you, you know, you not only like
looked at the problem solution equation,

but you also, gathered a lot of data.

As, as you said, you talk to potential
customers right off the bat and.

sam: I agree with you, uh, completely.

I think that if.

You're an entrepreneur and want to build
a business that will help many people

Start with, from my point of view, you
look for a problem because when you have

a problem, or at least in my case, what
we've built today with Woods is not the

first iteration or even close to it.

we thought of a lot of different ways
to solve this, and every time we hit

roadblock of, no, that's not gonna work,
we didn't have to shut down and say,

oh, well then this can't be done because
the problem still is there, right?

Somebody has to,

Reed: Right.

sam: We didn't solve it with
that particular solution.

What's another way we could approach it?

Reed: Yeah, that's a great point.

And so maybe that can bridge
into the product itself.

So at this point, you're in the
process of iterating on the product.

you've got some users on
the version of the platform.

you've got live now, but you're
continuing to build it out.

How did you get to the version that.

Was first usable and, you
know, what does that look like?

What does that product look like?

sam: Yeah,

Reed: it's online, right?

A SaaS product.

sam: So great, great.

I love this topic because, I had a great,
friend at my last company who would

say, ideas are great ideas, but ideas.

in some ways are cheap, right?

It's, what matters is,
what do you say no to?

People can come up with a lot of ideas,
but you have to decide how to prioritize,

what to say no to, like, what we have
today as first version of the software,

There's a lot of other things we would
love to add and we will add over time.

But it really came from a lot of
customer feedback, a lot of talking

to, um, advisors that we have as well
as our current customers to say, okay,

what is gonna be the most impactful
for you to improve your workflow?

So, a little bit about the software
today, essentially we start with a 30

minute onboarding session where we.

to know the office and they provide
some basic information to us about their

practice and, their banking information
securely so that we just take the

essential information that we need
to get you enrolled in EFT, payments.

So we've already done a tremendous
amount of research and we've built

relationships with these insurance
companies so that we know exactly

what is needed to get you enrolled.

You don't have to do any of that
research or figuring it all out.

basically with our form, we take
everything we need based on the payers

you need to enroll in, and then we
also get, access to some of your

systems in that onboarding session.

after that 30 minutes, our team
gets to work in connecting, your

system with our system and getting
the payments turned on getting the

data flowing the way it should be.

from there, also get access to a
web application, which we call the

Woods Dashboard, which has all of
your EOBs or explanation of benefits.

Basically whatever you need to reconcile
that you get from the insurance company.

So as soon as the insurance company
pays you directly through EFT.

And then when that happens, they
also send to us the ERA or the

Remittance advice so that you can,
reconcile that with, the information

that you already have in your system.

Make sure that that insurance
has paid you correctly.

So with that, basically, rather
than needing to collect checks,

sometimes they come through faxes.

Sometimes you've got these virtual
credit cards that come in like

you, you can bypass all of that.

the money just flows directly
into your bank account.

It's very easy, very
quick, and very secure.

But then everything you need to
reconcile all is in one place so that

it, cuts down a tremendous amount
of time for you and your staff.

Reed: So when you're explaining this
product to a new dental office that

you're, gonna take on board, maybe
they're a little skeptical, you know,

this is kind of, a new concept for them.

but I think, you know, dentists
can understand like a return

on investment, explanation.

what do you frame?

First, do you talk about the
administrative headache that goes away,

or do you talk about capturing payments
that may have otherwise been lost?

You know, what do you
emphasize the most here?

sam: I emphasize that I'm just a really
nice guy and you wanna work with me?

no.

I think, I mean, our team, we are
the experts in this space and we

understand, uh, how this all works.

And, uh, we're gonna, uh, be, helpful
and solve problems you have when

it comes to insurance payments.

Now.

to answer your question,
it does vary, right?

Like that's kind of, part of the
onboarding and part of the sales process.

As we get to know the office, we want
to get a feel for, what is it that, is

kind of weighing down your office and
each one is a little bit different.

Some of 'em, uh, to be honest,
right now in the dental

industry, staffing is a problem.

And so.

for some offices, they just can't
find the time to get it all done.

And so we will, lean into that.

There's others that they're really looking
for ways to streamline their payments.

They're looking for ways to
cut costs, uh, save money.

and to be honest, the Woods Dashboard
can help you in any of these regards.

So we typically will.

First layout.

Look, you think that getting paid
with a check or a virtual credit card

is like the standard or the default,
but you're spending a lot of money.

There's a lot of money that you're
wasting by getting paid in that way.

when you're getting paid with a check.

Uh, typically it's three to five
weeks wait to get that money.

And so you're,

Reed: Yeah.

sam: the insurance company interest on
that money when, when you're paid EFT,

it comes within seven days, typically
in the, matter of a couple of days.

And so you can be earning that interest.

Uh, and, uh, we haven't talked a whole
lot about the virtual credit cards.

This is kind of like a swear word
honestly, in the digital industry.

It's something that the
insurance companies.

used to try to, force, offices
to get off of the checks.

But the virtual credit cards is
essentially a credit card number that

comes in the mail so that the dental
office can, get paid by a credit

card from the insurance company.

Well, as you know, Anytime a
merchant takes a credit card,

then there is a processing fee
can be anywhere from two to 5%.

And if you're taking that from a
patient, well their copay may be 25 or

maybe a hundred or $200, but if you're
getting paid from an insurance company,

that could be like a $10,000, payment
if you have multiple claims on there.

And so that's a big chunk of,
change that comes out of their pay.

So if you're a dental office currently.

Getting paid through virtual credit
cards, that's a totally unnecessary

charge that you're spending.

If you got paid EFT, you get
paid faster and you would surpass

the virtual credit card fees.

Reed: Well, that makes a lot of sense.

Um, and, good explanation of the value.

Um, let's talk a little bit about
entrepreneurship as a whole.

You know, you're living this life,
You know, you've had to make some

decisions about like, you know,
do you work in corporate or do you

run with this idea, take some risk?

how did you make that initial decision
that this was, going to be, in your

interest, you know, how did you,
take the dive into entrepreneurship?

sam: Yeah, I mean, what's funny is I've
now, been building woods for, Over a year.

I mean, going on to
about a year and a half.

And I've come to realize that I've
always had like an entrepreneur

mindset and like this itch.

But, um, I don't know.

I think I just didn't have quite the
opportunity or maybe the confidence

to jump into it in the past.

And, maybe from my environment
or my upbringing, it was

very safe and it was very.

conservative to just, get your job at the
big company I was getting paid very, very

well as an actuary and had great benefits.

so into an entrepreneurial, role, yeah,
it was a big, jump and I mentioned

earlier, that this started as a project
it kind of got to this point where the

more the product formed, I kind of had to
just start making this decision of okay,

this actually could have legs, And as I
talked to more people in the industry,

I was like, there is a need for this.

do I jump into that or do I, take another
actuarial job And what it really came down

to was, if I put it aside and took another
actuarial job or worked at an insurance

company five or six months down the road,
I would always be wondering what would've

happened if I actually tried it right?

it would just be nagging me.

and so I felt like I gotta give it a shot,
and the more I, researched, the more I,

I spent more time on it Got more momentum
and it just kind of built from there.

Reed: Awesome.

Well, you know, that early validation from
future clients I'm sure really helped.

And, um, that kind of
feedback is always good.

I think a lot of business owners.

maybe don't pursue that.

You know, they take on a business
model that's and true and just run

with it rather than, encouraging
curiosity in themselves.

You know, when you're building
something new, you have to be curious.

you're the pioneer and, have
to learn by trial and error.

But, you know, to that point, Have you,
sounds like you've had a few, ideas

in this venture that haven't worked.

do you have any examples of those learning
experiences that, you went down a little

route and you had to stop and go back?

sam: Yeah, I think
that, to be honest, the.

first, kind of research was digging
into these, there's two major companies

that handle most of these virtual
credit cards for the dental offices and

business model seemed very odd to me,
especially when the feedback I gotten

from a lot of people I heard working
with them, just didn't like them.

and so it was kinda like.

The initial project was
like, huh, I wonder why.

they seem to have like
a large of the market.

Maybe there's an idea here where I
could build out a payments company

that could be a rival to one of these
and just be a better version of this.

And so my initial thought was to
do some kind of card product that

could help pay dentists faster.

but as I did more research and
talked to more dental offices, then

I realized that they really, don't
like these things, and it would be

a very big uphill battle to try to
convince them, no, we're not like them.

This is a better card.

Right.

I think there was also at the beginning
then like I, because I come from insurance

and I have a lot of connections there.

My initial leaning was some way to,
help out the insurance companies who are

spending all this money on, checks and
unnecessarily sending payments manually.

And so.

initial research was like, maybe we
could build something that would just

be an easier payment system for the
insurance companies or something.

but it was something that
realized, that's natural for me,

because I come from that world.

But as I dug

Reed: Yeah.

sam: more, it was like,
no, this is gonna be.

is definitely something that can
benefit the dental offices tremendously.

they're gonna be the ones
that want this immediately.

So.

Reed: Okay.

Yeah, that is interesting.

There's, you know, like this business
model where you have, you know, kind

of a two-sided marketplace and, um.

You know, I could totally see myself
thinking the same thing, you know, like,

well, you know, it's all aggregated, be
among these big insurers, you know, and

so like, if I work with them, you know, I
can scale faster, but, but, um, but then

you have to include the thinking, how,
you know, who really benefits the most.

And like you said, it's
the dental offices.

And now, um.

You know, you've told me some interesting
things about how you've done some sales

and marketing, you know, and, I know you
were doing cold calls to dental offices,

and I think you've gone as far as like,
knocking on doors, is that, you know,

like what's worked and what's, what's,

sam: know,

Reed: you know.

sam: look, I'm an actuary.

I willfully admit that, like, I mean,
if people don't know what an actuary

is, just think of an accountant.

But, uh, a little bit, less
extroverted, but like, I don't

have a sales mind at all.

That's something that I'm actually
enjoying learning the marketing and

sales side of the entrepreneurial
journey and getting Great feedback

from, the market search team and others
to learn the right tools to be using.

early on I did a lot of just
cold drop-ins to dental offices.

and we're doing that a little
bit still, but it's mostly

just to get feedback, right?

Like, to continually find out, okay,
what is it that is important to them?

What is it that, is gonna.

resonate with them as we
talk about the product.

do we come in and emphasize, Hey, you're
gonna save a ton of money if you get

paid this way, or you're gonna get
paid faster if you get paid this way.

Or do we come in with, Hey, you're gonna
save so much time if we do it this way.

So it's like, so I did a lot of, uh,
cold drop-ins, um, to, to kind of

talk with office managers, talk with.

Uh, Dental, I mean, it's, to
be honest, sometimes it is very

difficult to talk with a dentist
when you drop into their office.

They're, they're meeting
with patients, right.

But, um, there have been, the occasion
where in between appointments and,

and very kind to, to, uh, kind
of educate me a little bit on, on

how things work with their office.

Um, but at the same time, because
we're, we're getting started then.

We're exploring a lot of different routes.

Uh, we have, some email marketing,
some social media marketing.

But know, the other thing that
I would say is that Dental

is a pretty small community.

Um, like there's a lot of people who
just know each other and there's a lot

of relationship building that is really
great within the dental community.

And that's actually something that's
been, eye-opening to me coming from.

I mean, I worked dental
insurance most of my career,

but there's almost no crossover.

Like nobody from dental insurance.

Now works in dentistry and
nobody from dentistry now almost

works in dental insurance.

It's like this big gap

Reed: Like adversarial, like there.

sam: think, I mean there is, uh, a
lot of people in the dental industry

who, um, have adverse opinions about
some of the dental insurance carriers.

But my, point is that, um, as
I build relationships with.

industry people then they've been
great at, introducing me to others and

building relationships with others.

there's a really great community
of, dental consultants and coaches.

I mean, dentists spend, most of
their time really concerned about

providing the best kind of care.

And so they often, bring in consultants
to help them better fine tune how they

run the business side of things, right.

how do they improve their revenue?

how do they streamline
their costs and so forth.

So, as I talk with these dental
consultants, they're for the most

part, very excited about the product.

'cause they see immediately
the potential of, Hey, yeah,

we gotta improve the cash flow.

We gotta, cut time for, the dental staff.

And so as I talk with them, then
they've been introducing me to some

of their, clients or just others
that they work with, and that's

been a great way to spread the word.

Reed: Awesome.

Um, you know, I really admire the direct
approach, you know, that does take a

lot of courage and, um, some companies
just don't do outreach, you know, they

just, like, I'm only taking in inbound
requests and others when they do it,

They're very anxious about it, so, you
know, props to you for, actually, using

the shoe leather to get to new offices.

sam: I'll say thank you, but at the
same time, like we haven't perfected it.

We have a long ways to go to figure out
like maybe we decide this isn't like the

best way to market it, but I do think
it's a great way to gather data initially.

Reed: Well, well, you know, while you're
thinking, um, uh, you know, and if, if

it pops up, feel free to interrupt me.

But, um, I like to ask
all my guests about ai.

Now you're in the tech space and,
you know, having a software platform.

But what do you think
is, valuable about ai?

You know, we chatted earlier and you
had kind of a spicy take on ai and

I'd love you to elaborate on that, um,

sam: Yeah,

Reed: know, maybe shock my audience.

sam: look, and, maybe the audience would
just say, oh man, this is an old man.

What is he thinking?

he's not taking up.

I use AI every day, whether
it's cha, EBT, or other things

that I do use it all the time.

I guess my spicy take that I think
that, Especially entrepreneurs

feel like what they're doing
has to have AI to have value.

And, um, I think that what that does is
it leads companies to force AI into their,

processes or into their marketing in a
way that just, doesn't really make sense.

and so then it just becomes
like window dressing.

I actually was having a conversation with.

Someone, recently who, because they,
were talking about a particular dental

software, and I asked him because
he was more familiar with it than

me, and I was, like I said, now they
claim to be using ai, but based on

my understanding of their business
model, I don't wanna see why, like, how

that's relevant for what they're doing.

And his response was, well, because
they have PDFs or they have.

Pictures of documents that they use AI
to scan it and I thought, okay, yeah, I

guess that technically is using ai, but
if you set up the system in a better way.

Then you could just transmit the actual
data rather than create a PDF and then

scan it or take a picture of a thing
you could build the system in a simpler

way so that the data that you're looking
for is transferred correctly and more

simple rather than have to use ai.

So that, that's my only point is
that, but they love to be able to flop

that on their website or whatever,
that, Hey, we use ai and, and so,

Reed: Yeah.

sam: what's interesting is.

Um, I am not a, a
software developer myself.

I've worked with a lot of 'em.

I feel like I'm pretty well versed
in the things that we do and can do.

Um, but I don't code myself.

And so when I was first, reaching out to
developers to help me build this, the way

I reached out to them was say, Hey, are
you ready to get on the forefront of ai?

This is not the company for you.

And what that did is like, it
immediately weeded out all those

people who are like looking for the
newest and greatest like next thing.

'cause I knew that what I was building
was gonna be very valuable, but it

was also fairly simple from like a
software development point of view.

and it was actually kind of cool
to see some of the responses.

They're like, oh, I love this.

and so it was a way to
find those people who.

Hey, there's, there's a lot
of great business that still

needs to be, automated.

Like we use APIs, we use a lot of
automation and tech, but it's not

like, the forefront of ai like
some of these other companies,

Reed: Well, you know, and
that's an interesting point.

I, um, I'll just throw a
little anecdote of my own.

Um, you know, I am constantly like
bombarded by, uh, vendors wanting

me to try out their AI tool.

You know, it's like AI for, uh, you
know, PDF Generation AI for like, um.

Parallel parking or something, you
know, and, and, uh, but you know, so

I've, I've been creating this podcast,
I'm a couple months in and, um, one of

my early podcasts, I just titled it AI
1 0 1 and, um, it was just me talking

to the camera and it was, uh, you
know, I, I can't even re-listen to it.

I was so like.

Boring.

And, um, even my, my mother
said it was the, the worst

podcast I've, I've done so far.

sam: podcast she's ever listened to.

Reed: yeah, she, you know, she said, this
is like my last warning on the podcast.

But anyway, I, uh.

You know, when I, look at the numbers
though, I mean, it gets like five

downloads a day, you know, which
is a lot for my podcast, but it's

by like an exponential factor.

It is my most popular podcast, you know,
somehow it's caught into the algorithm and

being promoted like crazy and it's like,

sam: obviously, we'll edit some of
this out, but I have to tell you

this hilarious story that like,

Reed: yeah.

sam: my brothers and I, we used
to play, uh, like PlayStation

Battlefield online together a lot, and

Reed: Yeah,

sam: sometimes we would have.

We decided to like all get together,
live and play in like the same room.

And we would do it for like
a whole day and we would call

it our, our marathon, right?

And then like

Reed: sure.

sam: in one of these emails or
communications and or somebody, I don't

remember who, somebody accidentally
spelt it marathon with a G on the end.

So then it just, that
just became the word.

And so then, um, when we're like,
sometimes we, we take videos.

Uh, like we can upload videos to
YouTube and just like share 'em

with each other or some of things.

And I, so we have these very
random videos with different names.

And then for some, like I just put thong
on as the title it was from our marathon.

I was like, thong.

That one got so many views on YouTube.

I was like, oh, what have I done?

I made so many angry people.

Oh, geez.

Reed: Yeah.

You know, a lot of,

sam: I, I

Reed: a lot of our.

sam: to be better at marketing because
it's just something as simple as that.

Reed: Well, you know, there is a
luck factor in, a lot of businesses

success, and sometimes it's dropping
a dumb word in their communication,

sam: right.

Put a G in there and, yeah.

Reed: That's right.

well, Sammy, you know,
this has been great.

if you have any, parting thoughts that,
lots of entrepreneurs in the audience

or people thinking about jumping into
entrepreneurship, any parting thoughts

that you'd share, like, things you'd
avoid if you were to do it again

or, anything you'd do differently,

sam: You know, I, I'm not an expert
by, any means, but I'll share

my own point of view is that it
really just takes a curious mind.

You gotta ask a lot of questions.

I encourage that in all of my employees
and even with my kids, like, Hey, what

questions does this bring to mind?

the more questions you ask, the more
you realize there's a lot of stuff out

there that people just haven't figured
out or haven't thought through yet.

'cause they haven't asked the question.

Like, so many of these
dental offices I talk to,

when I ask 'em why they're
getting paid with checks, their

answer is ah, I don't know.

That's just how they pay us.

it never occurred to them that
they could get paid another way.

But to be a good entrepreneur, I do
think you need to be constantly asking,

and, not to say you have to question
the norm on everything, but it's good

to know why certain things are done.

I'll also say that it helps
to have an objective, mindset.

too often I think.

people, hear what they want to hear
when they're spreading their idea.

Like we talked earlier about talking
with industry people, and it's

very easy to talk to three people.

One of 'em loves the idea,
the other two hate the idea.

And you're like, I.

People love this, people love this.

But you have to like really be of and
be, because you have to be able to tell

yourself the truth that, yeah, this is
working or this is, I mean, you have to

be optimistic too as an entrepreneur,
but, um, you have to kind of face

what is really the possible out there.

You know, I was very fortunate
to a great start to my career and

have, great people to work with and
get a lot of great experience in

insurance and in the tech space.

And that helped me, build a little
bit of a nest egg that helped me

to jump into entrepreneurship.

I know that that is one of the things
that's holding some people back is

like, well, I don't have the money
I need to stay at my corporate job.

uh, yeah, that's difficult.

It's something that you kinda
have to save, up for at times.

Um, I also have just kind of had
this mindset that, you know, the

corporate job will always be there.

so like this is a great way
to, see if this thing has

some legs, just jump into it.

Reed: That's awesome.

Well, Sam, you've uh,
shared a lot of wisdom here.

Um, you know, if there's obviously any
dental offices in the audience or people.

In decision making capabilities that, um,
insurers, you know, I'd, I'd encourage

them to, to talk to you, but, uh, where
would you encourage people to find you?

Um, either online or otherwise?

sam: I think the,

Reed: I.

sam: way would just go to our website,
woods Dental, W-O-O-D-S Dental, um, and on

there has layout of what our offering is.

You can book a demo and, learn
more and have a live demo.

We could show you how it works.

Uh, there's also links on there
to our LinkedIn or Facebook pages

that you could follow there.

And, uh, yeah, love to find
out if it's a fit for your

office and how we can help you.

Reed: Fantastic.

Well, thanks so much, Sam.

Uh, look forward to hearing more as,
uh, you progress and, uh, continue to

build out the product and your clientele.

Um, but you know, I'm excited.

sam: Yeah.

Thank you.

This has been great.

A lot of fun.

Want to stay ahead of what's actually
working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
grow smarter, faster, and louder.

That's market surge.io

because your next breakthrough
shouldn't be a guess.