Inside Marketing with MarketSurge

Speaker: Welcome to Inside
Marketing With Market Surge.

Your front row seat to the
boldest ideas and smartest

strategies in the marketing game.

Your host is Reed Hansen, chief
Growth Officer at Market Surge.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hello
and welcome back to Inside

Marketing with Market Surge.

Today I'm joined by David Prater, the
co-founder of Do Fun, a creative and

growth focused agency, helping brands not
only look good, but grow with intention.

David leads visual storytelling
and brand execution at.fun,

bringing ideas to life through websites,
video, and creative systems that are

designed to convert, not just impress.

What makes David especially interesting is
that he's lived both sides of the equation

from freelance web design, where looking
good didn't always translate into results.

To now leading teams that align
branding, performance, and

growth metrics under one roof.

We're going to talk about creativity
as a growth lever, where brands get

stuck between design and demand and
what actually matters when you're

building something meant to scale.

David, welcome to the show.

David A Pratter: Thanks Reid.

Appreciate you for having me.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Yeah, my pleasure.

And we've gotten to know each
other over the last few months.

David has a fantastic website and
has a lot of great things, you know,

so I'd recommend going to.fund.co

to look at what they have and how
they have arranged their services.

and one aspect I like is that rather
than describe the individual services,

in your offering, in the top menu, it's
look good, feel good, and is it work good?

Is that right?

Or.

David A Pratter: Run.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Run.

Good.

There we go.

So you are the look good lead,
which is, and that's probably

the one everybody wanted.

What does that actually mean in
practice and how do you make sure

that looking good also equates to
like business growth for your clients?

David A Pratter: Awesome.

Yeah, so look good equates to
genuinely anything that needs

to look good and that can range
from starting from the ground up.

Doing the branding for a new company
or a refresh logos, full brand

guidelines, or it can look like doing
all the design for a website or the

ui for a new app that someone's doing.

So really it equates to what it's called.

Anything that needs to look good for
our clients is coming across my desk.

How it equates to results is really,
I always believe as an artist that

one of the best things you can do
for your business is stand out by

having strong branding or spend
time investing in creativity, based

around the values of your business.

Now, what's cool about the way dot fund's
set up is that I don't necessarily need

to do the sit down and figure out what is
going to be the most, let's say revenue

generating decision as far as content goes
or as far as graphics go, that's something

that Pearl, the leader of Feel Good can
decide for me ahead of time, tell me

here's the kind of graphics that we think
are the most connected to their target

audience, our client's target audience.

And then I get to go and have a strong
artistic brief where I just get to

focus on making it look as good as
possible based on those directions.

So that's how I would

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Fantastic.

David A Pratter: Yeah.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
No, that's great.

And so, you know, when, if
there's a balance between,

you know, looking good and.

feeling good and running good.

Where do you think a lot of brands
that come to you are most efficient?

You know, like where are you
having to do the most rebalancing?

David A Pratter: Where are we
having to do the most rebalancing?

Is a great question.

It really depends case by case.

We've had a lot of clients come
in recently actually, where

it's only a feel good contract.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh.

David A Pratter: websites are
good enough, so they just want

ads management, a few blogs

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

David A Pratter: technical SEO help,
which is technically run good as far

as things that are really laid out.

But where I think.

We deliver most efficiently
is when someone comes in and

is open to all three sides,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

David A Pratter: company has
okay, branding a decent website.

Their ads in SEO, you know, are
maybe up and running, but not

as efficient as they would like.

And we want to be starting
to show up in AI searches.

We wanna start having strong technical
SEO getting to really turn on the whole

team, have a kind of a exponential effect.

I think that's what
you're asking, like where,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

David A Pratter: fund the most efficient.

Yeah.

It's one we can all work together because
well run Good is also our project manager.

So when he's actually
involved in the project.

He also has a little bit more chance
to have our Jira set up really

well for the project 'cause he is
actually on the meetings and so that's

the most efficient is when we can
really do the full service offering.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay, now,
you used to be a freelance web designer

prior to dot fun and you know, so you've
got many years of experience designing.

Beautiful products.

What do you think is the difference
between working freelance as you did

and working for a larger group that's
a little bit more comprehensive?

what does that enable you to do?

How does that help your job work better?

David A Pratter: Yeah,

well, to call back the project manager, I
was doing the project management myself.

It was really underwhelming.

if I was focusing on a design,
then I wasn't updating my

tickets at the end of the day.

So having.

A team where one of us is
extremely focused on project

management has been a game changer.

That's one of the biggest things
actually that change between

freelance and an agency for me.

And I'm sure there's a lot of freelancers
out there who do a great job with

their project management, actually
probably a fairly low percentage,

maybe 20% of freelancers I'd imagine
do a great job keeping track of

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

David A Pratter: That's been
one of the biggest differences.

However, the other side of it is.

That, like you said in the intro, is
going from being able to say, yeah, I can

make you a great website, and it sounds
like that's what you think is gonna be

important for your business right now.

And so yeah, I bet it'll be a great
addition or a great development

for your business to now.

Yeah, we're gonna build
you a really good website.

We're gonna make sure that the business
events or key events that are actually

gonna grow your business are happening
through a whole different department,

which is handling ads and SEO, conversion
rate optimization and the such.

So it just feels like a much more
well-rounded offering because I'm not just

saying, look at that beautiful website
that you have now, and, good luck, or

actually towards the end of my freelancing
journey, I was actually starting to

dip my toe in ads and say like, okay,
all the clients I make websites for

are now asking how do we get leads in?

So then I was, okay, let
me go take that over.

Versus now we just have people
specialized in every department

delivering each of those at a high
level rather than learning on the fly.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay, so
now David, you're a real artist.

You know, you mentioned that you
come from a artistic background

and some artists maybe push back.

Often artistic instincts are at opposition
to some of the data-driven decisions that

need to be made to optimize a website
for functionality or optimize a digital

product to sell or perform a function.

How, you know, do you feel like that's
a false trade off that creativity is.

At odds with the constraints of
functionality and performance

or is that something that
can be harmonious frequently?

David A Pratter: I think that
there's truth to it because

early on in my website.

Adventure.

I partnered with a 3D artist who we just

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: hmm.

David A Pratter: at making the
craziest websites we could.

And what that led to was a
very impactful experience.

However, often our performance
metrics or like Google Page speeds

would suffer and things like that.

And I think that's a trap that a
lot of people run into early on

into the web design specifically.

I believe user experience is
just as important at something,

having an impactful look.

So a very clear journey on a website or
an app can be just as important as the

flashy animations that keep you engaged.

For example, Duolingo does a
great job with having animations

that carry you through.

However, they don't
sacrifice any amount of.

pass through of the
actual content of the app.

I do believe that some companies
undervalue potent creativity.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

David A Pratter: I've run, across a
lot of companies who say like, prove

to me that this creative lift is
going to do the numbers in advance.

And sometimes that's not possible.

having the faith that, encouraging
creativity, people execute on ideas that

maybe even sound wild within a company.

Can bring some of the biggest
results possible to a company.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Interesting.

So, you know, I, I'm no designer
and I actually, I think my instincts

are like opposite of a designer.

And I say that Not as a
humble brag by any means.

I say it as like a major deficiency,
but I have often wondered.

Are there trends between the clients that
come at you and say like, prove that this

creative lift is worth it, versus those
that come and say like, I would love

something beautiful and, and original.

Like, are there certain
industries that they come from

or certain personality types?

Like what, what have you observed between
those two instincts among clients?

David A Pratter: The people
who give creative license

often have some amount of.

creativity inherent to the industry.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

David A Pratter: artist,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

David A Pratter: Software
company who focuses on ensuring.

Creative alignment across
departments and locations.

an app marketplace for
creators to connect with jobs.

So people like that are like,
we want to really shine from

the creative perspective.

The people who tend to focus on
data driven things are often, just

in the software development or run
a B2B Actually, we recently had one

of those client industries that I
mentioned was a B2B company, and yet

we're asking for wild creativity.

So one of the things we actually
had to consult was like, if you're

trying to convince executive people,
you may not want to go this crazy.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Yeah.

Interesting.

David A Pratter: can reserve
that for maybe a B2C offering,

which they didn't have.

but obviously it's not
a prescriptive answer.

there's different decision makers in
each industry that might decide we want

more creativity or less creativity.

But for the most part, if someone's
staring at data all day, then

they probably want the data first.

And if someone has a creative,
job description or their business

thrives on the idea of being
respected from a creative standpoint.

Then those people will usually give
a little bit more creative license.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

Well, it, you know, I like the way
your firm is positioned because you

know, there's, there's, you, yourself,
you're, you're obviously conscious of

both of these forces in creative design.

But then you've also got the other
pillars in your agency that help, you

know, push for functionality and results.

And so the creatives that tend
to, go for abstract originality.

you know, you're well prepared
to have that conversation, say

like, you know, maybe let's reign
it in a little bit and, make this

more user friendly, for instance.

And I mean, I love that.

I think that's a great balance to have.

So, now you've worked with
a lot of different kinds

of clients, it sounds like.

So you've worked with some B2B, some B2C.

What have been some of the most
important lessons you've learned as

you've been building up the agency?

David A Pratter: Our biggest
ones was we had this like very.

call it bleeding heart, but a very,
had a desire to really give back to

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Ah.

David A Pratter: and took on two or
three pro bono clients off the bat.

Basically revenue share or
performance incentive based clients

right off the bat of forming the
agency about a year ago now, and.

We just wouldn't have
done that looking back.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Sure.

David A Pratter: we want
to have in our offering.

For example, in a year or so, once
our balance sheet is feeling a little

better being able to say, okay, let's
go find a nonprofit that needs a new

website and do this practically for free.

That's absolutely something we wanna do.

However, as we started closing
larger retainer clients.

And our hours became worth a
very specific amount of dollars.

It was hard to say, okay, let's go spend
time now on the client who we have like

maybe in six months we should start
getting 15% of their sale et cetera.

So it just led to, and, and two
of them were, were friends who

owned businesses and one was a.

A client that I had had in my
freelance days, who was the one

who I had played around with ads
towards the end of our engagement.

And we're still with them, but we're
kind of restructuring this year saying,

okay, in order to make progress, we
don't need just this pro bono, we need

to have some kind of like labor, labor
pool sort of like a dollar amount

that you put towards labor from people
inside of our company to spend time.

objectives forward.

Otherwise we're kind of deciding
between let's go spend time on a

retainer client, or let's go actually
spend our money to move forward a one

of these pro bono smaller projects.

So I think we're learning from the lesson,
but that's one of the biggest ones was

like cash early on was extremely important
so that we could all go full time.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Yeah, no, that's great advice.

Now as a designer you know, for
a while now, people's attention

spans have been getting shorter.

their eyes dart across screens faster.

They click away from pages faster.

But then the last two, three years AI
Been a force, I'm sure that affects

some of your thinking around design.

how do you account for that
in the products you design?

You know, what's your approach in light
of some of these recent developments?

David A Pratter: Yeah, it has been
a pretty wild ride having pretty

much decided to go all in on
being an artist and design about

four years before this AI boom.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

David A Pratter: How we balance it.

So I personally avoid using AI
in my day to day entirely, and

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

David A Pratter: because I.

Believe that it'll be extra valuable
for me to retain critical thinking and

creative problem solving for myself.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

David A Pratter: say our company uses
no ai, but for my personal workflow,

I do my best to just be like, okay, if
I'm about to sit down and brainstorm,

I'm just gonna sit down and brainstorm.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

David A Pratter: I'll absolutely
use ai, but I digress.

I made.

The assessment pretty early on, maybe
like two and a half years ago, that

especially as AI grows, the human touch
will become more and more valuable.

So no matter what, and actually
you'll see it as the very first

line in our website is human first.

even if we're gonna
use AI somewhere along.

A workflow, not necessarily in the design
side, but in the app development side

and anything first, it's a human that
sits down and ideate and figures things

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

David A Pratter: and then we can
use AI to further things along.

our design workflow, it's actually the
only place we've been using AI regularly

at all, is in the mood boarding phase.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

David A Pratter: when we sit down
for an idea, if we can't find

on Pinterest, a modern, sleek.

Yellow and green look that we can
show to a client and be like, this

is kind of like one way we could
go, here's another way we could go.

'cause we usually, what we used to
use was Pinterest dribble, Beehan

to build these mood boards that say
like, here's Moody, Gothic old style,

here's modern, sleek, et cetera.

And sometimes when we can't find
exactly what we're looking for,

we'll use AI to put one tile
on a mood board or a few tiles

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Mm-hmm.

David A Pratter: But from there,
it's no ai for the design process.

that to me is something
I want to maintain.

Now, I actually have my own LLC called
aligned by design, which I'm going

to ensure that no AI ever touches.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

David A Pratter: is a growth
agency and is like, really, we

just need to be as efficient.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Right.

David A Pratter: for
our clients as possible.

So we absolutely will
use AI where necessary.

But I believe that soulful art,
will become exponentially more

valuable the more and more ai.

Capability increases.

And that's because if AI can make
you a website that's passable today,

then what sets you apart from anyone
who could just type in that prompt?

And so my theory is just keep
committing to the art, keep committing

to the fact that human creativity
will continue very, very valuable.

And even more so, the more AI expands.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's awesome.

Well, that's gonna be a great
quote for the social media

promoting this episode after.

I think that is a bold statement
and, you know, I want you to be

right because you know, AI is
kind of encroaching on everything.

And, you know, I wanna support
creatives and artists like yourself,

that are truly talented and truly care.

So I understand that you have a product
launch coming up in February for.fund.

Can you tell us a little bit about that
and what's the future for your agency?

David A Pratter: This is a great segue
because while in the creative process,

we are not using much AI at all.

The two products, whether we would be
launching in the beginning of February.

And the second part after are AI products.

And the reason we made them was because
actually of the pro bono clients,

and not because of, but oftentimes we
would have a client come in and say

like, Hey, can you do this for me?

Or like, can you guys handle this for me?

And, it was such a small
project, it was pretty much a no.

And what we wanted to create and
what our aim is with these two

products is to take AI and the value
and the power of AI and put it into

the hands of small business owners.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Okay.

David A Pratter: and one of the
products is a simple AI receptionist.

11 labs built into a AI answering machine,
which will have your company's context.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Awesome.

David A Pratter: that needs to answer.

Integrations with a calendar, and it
will allow for business owners who are

aiming at the home services market first.

So someone like a plumber who's
out working all day to have

someone answering their phone.

And it'll perform actions from there.

The initial launch will be mainly
just a calendar integration

and we'll go from there.

the second one, and the one that
I'm a little more excited about even

is something we've been using to
save a lot of time inside of.fund,

which is a AI project management tool.

And

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Oh, cool.

David A Pratter: like I said, in
my four years of freelance, it was,

I don't think I effectively used
project management, a single project.

It was all in my head, all written down.

I didn't really ticket things.

And when we started the agency,
my bad habits carried over.

I wasn't ticketing, I was
keeping everything in my head.

And Alvin, the leader of Run Good,
who's like run Good is any software

development in AI really at this point.

And he built a bot that we can
now just tag in our Discord

or Slack or what have you.

Hey, everything we just talked
about, organize it into tickets.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Hmm.

David A Pratter: that would
be pretty loose and probably

not have a very high hit rate.

But actually I've been pretty surprised
at how vague we can be with it.

And literally just conversationally
say like, so everything we just

talked about put in these tickets.

If it messes up, Hey,
actually, sorry, wrong board.

This needs to be a subtask.

And you just kinda like go from there now.

We did, we do.

There will be a guidelines of
like, here's how to make it do what

you want from the first message.

So say like, okay, you need to
make sure you have your board.

Tell it what board it is, what priority,
who it should be assigned to, et cetera.

But a lot of people, I, at least me
and Pearl look good and feel good.

Just kinda like throw things
at it and then slowly refine.

We say like, okay, what does
everything that we just talked

about look like in a ticket?

Okay, this one should be assigned
to this, this, and this and this.

And it just makes it all so much more
enjoyable and everything gets ticketed.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's awesome.

So that'll be available for your clients.

David A Pratter: That'll be available
for our clients and also just to

be purchased as a subscription.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Very cool.

David A Pratter: AI

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: Very cool.

David A Pratter: and
project management tool,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Well, that sounds fantastic.

Well, I'd love to see
the progress you've made.

You guys have an awesome agency.

You're in Austin, Texas, and.

David A Pratter: of us in Austin.

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge:
Which is in a really cool town.

I lived nearby for a few years in
Round Rock and no, that's awesome.

I would definitely point anybody your
direction Now, remind us where people can

find you if they'd like to work with you.

David A Pratter: Yeah.

Dot fund, dot co.

the website's undergoing a lot of updates.

We'll have a mega menu pretty soon here.

We're breaking things down into
like, look good, feel good.

Run goods, static pages under that for
our, like, core solutions we're saying.

And then just listing all our services.

So those will start popping
up here in a little bit.

And then Iris, which is
the answering bot and.bot,

which is the project management
should also show up under our

tools drop down at some point.

So yeah, that's dot fund,

Reed Hansen, MarketSurge: That's awesome.

every brand should follow your
lead and do all the punny product

spinoffs that are available.

I think that's a great idea.

Well, David, thank you
so much for joining.

You know, love your insight, love
your attitude, and I, definitely

would point anybody your way.

It sounds like you have a awesome
agency, so thanks so much.

David A Pratter: Thanks Reid.

I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2: Want to stay ahead of what's
actually working in marketing right now.

Head over to Market surge.io

and see how we're helping businesses
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